Interview with Ann G. Dye, November 1, 2004

Nevada Test Site Oral History Project University of Nevada, Las Vegas Interview with Ann Dye November 1, 2004 Las Vegas, Nevada Interview Conducted By Shannon Applegate © 2007 by UNLV Libraries Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews conducted by an interviewer/ researcher with an interviewee/ narrator who possesses firsthand knowledge of historically significant events. The goal is to create an archive which adds relevant material to the existing historical record. Oral history recordings and transcripts are primary source material and do not represent the final, verified, or complete narrative of the events under discussion. Rather, oral history is a spoken remembrance or dialogue, reflecting the interviewee’s memories, points of view and personal opinions about events in response to the interviewer’s specific questions. Oral history interviews document each interviewee’s personal engagement with the history in question. They are unique records, reflecting the particular meaning the interviewee draws from her/ his individual life experience. Produced by: The Nevada Test Site Oral History Project Departments of History and Sociology University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 89154- 5020 Director and Editor Mary Palevsky Principal Investigators Robert Futrell, Dept. of Sociology Andrew Kirk, Dept. of History The material in the Nevada Test Site Oral History Project archive is based upon work supported by the U. S. Dept. of Energy under award number DEFG52- 03NV99203 and the U. S. Dept. of Education under award number P116Z040093. Any opinions, findings, and conclusions or recommendations expressed in these recordings and transcripts are those of project participants— oral history interviewees and/ or oral history interviewers— and do not necessarily reflect the views of the U. S. Department of Energy or the U. S. Department of Education. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 1 Interview with Ann Dye November 1, 2004 Conducted by Shannon Applegate Table of Contents Introduction: birth, family background, childhood, education 1 Hired by Federal Services Incorporated [ FSI] to work at Nevada Test Site [ NTS] 3 Remembers early Las Vegas and Ely, NV 5 Talks about life at Mercury and the NTS 7 Transfers from FSI to REECo, working on loan to N- Division, LANL 9 Moves to REECo in Las Vegas as senior secretary, Special Projects 11 Recalls relationship with scientists while working at NTS 12 Remembers impressions of atmospheric tests 14 Talks about REECo safety policy and radiation safety awareness 15 Discusses work in MAD Building and Kiwi Project 16 Recalls camaraderie and fun of people working at NTS, and then advent of OSHA 17 Talks about work with REECo Special Projects 19 Resigns from REECo, moves to Hawaii and then back home briefly, and then returns to REECo and works at NTS for Harold Cunningham and Dick Land 20 Works for Bob Bostian ( Program Manager for LANL), promoted through several positions to become Program Manager for DoD, LANL, and Sandia ( REECO’s first female department manager) 23 Recalls experiences at University of Utah and lessons learned about relationships 25 Talks about position as Program Director for DoD, LANL, and Sandia and problems for women working in these jobs at NTS 27 Meets and marries husband Dick Dye 29 Discusses “ discretionary power” of the budget 30 Talks about the different cultures of the DoD and the labs 31 Discusses upgrades in workforce, requirement for college degrees, work experience 33 Remembers what she and her husband talked about outside of work, and the bonds formed by NTS workers 34 Talks about various reactions of NTS to political changes: management, hiring, budgets 35 Recalls union activity and strikes at the NTS 37 Remembers social occasions and relationships with military generals and scientists at the NTS 38 Talks about protesters at the NTS 40 Recalls reactions of local people to testing and employment at the NTS, and observations of atmospheric tests 41 Gives opinion on Yucca Mountain Project 43 Observation of changes in workforce attitudes, especially about women 45 Recalls working for Harold Cunningham and other REECo managers 47 Conclusion: women and the flexibility of working in many different roles 50 UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 1 Interview with Ann Dye November 1, 2004 in Las Vegas, NV Conducted by Shannon Applegate [ 00: 00: 00] Begin Track 2, Disc 1. Shannon Applegate: OK, we are recording. Ann Dye: OK, so first do you want to know that I’m Ann Dye? Yes. My maiden name was Gaufin. I was born in 1939 up in Ely, Nevada, the birthplace, incidentally, of Pat Nixon. I didn’t know that. I think she was only there for seven days. Her father— And then she went to Whittier [ California], right? Yes, right. Yeah, I studied a lot of— she was a neat lady. She really was. Yes. I liked her much better than I liked her husband. Yes. But anyhow, my dad was born and raised in Utah. My mom was born and raised in Ely and lived there and worked for an uncle in his drugstore— for my uncle, not her uncle. And this uncle, his wife was my dad’s sister. Dad graduated from the University of Utah and worked in Boulder City on the Boulder Dam— well, he worked in the drugstore there when the Boulder Dam was being built. Then he moved up to Ely, met my mom, and they got married. Spent their whole life living there. What did he major at in—? Pharmacy. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 2 OK. He was a pharmacist in Nevada. He was licensed. He was the second- longest license holder in the state. Oh, did he? And the State Board of Pharmacy came up to Ely, first time they ever held a meeting away from Reno, to honor him. Wow! Yes, he didn’t retire till he was eight- two, and then only because his back hurt so much. So how long did he hold the license for? Sixty- two years. Wow! Yes. So he and his partner had a little drugstore, Ely Drugstore, on the corner of Main. I had two sisters, and when we turned twelve we went to work in the drugstore. So I learned soda jerking and— Oh how neat! It was fun. Had a lot of good experiences. You must’ve been real popular. You had access to the ice cream. Yes. Oh how cool! Yeah, it was nice. Plus another really neat thing about it, you know, when I was growing up, being wild was going out and sneaking a cigarette and having a beer. Well, if kids were going to do that, I was always such a little prude. If I didn’t want to do that I’d say, My dad’s making me work. And Dad never let me down. I didn’t have to say, Well, I don’t want to do UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 3 this, I didn’t feel like doing it. So it was pretty neat. I don’t think I would’ve been a bad kid anyhow, but I had an excuse without looking like a chicken. Right. Right. So then I graduated in ’ 57, and from as long as I can remember I wanted to go to business school but my dad was pretty adamant about university; so I went to Utah State University with kind of an idea that since the poor guy never had any sons, I’d take pharmacy and go along in his footsteps. Well, I went one year up in Logan and I just didn’t like it, so the next summer I cajoled my parents until they agreed I could go to Stevens Henager Business School in Salt Lake City. So I went there and got an Associate of Commercial Sciences degree, which meant I could be a super- duper hot shot executive secretary. And my last year, just months before I was supposed to graduate, one of my class assignments— we took business law, accounting, all kinds of math, personality development, modeling, the whole range— but one of my assignments was to go find a job interview and practice doing an interview. And it happened to be— I think it was at Hotel Utah in Salt Lake City. Federal Services Incorporated [ FSI] was conducting interviews and they were the guard service at the Nevada Test Site [ NTS], which I’d never heard of. And this job sounded so nice. My interview went extremely well and they hired me. On the spot? On the spot. And I took the job on the spot because it was going to be three hundred dollars a month, which was just, I mean that was an amazing amount of money to make. Well, my folks were pretty upset because I didn’t— [ 00: 04: 44] End Track 2, Disc 1. [ 00: 00: 00] Begin Track 3, Disc 1. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 4 OK, we back recording. So just one thing. So they taught you modeling at the— That was to complement with poise. A lot of us that got in there really came from small towns. I was extremely shy and had a hard time being around people, and it was to kind of help you come out, learn how to stand, walk, talk, have the social graces along with being able to do the secretarial or accounting, whatever you needed to do, to become a well- rounded executive secretary. So the professional skills that you would need in an interview or with how to deal with these executive men. Right. And of course I might add, back then, this was in ’ 60, you didn’t go to an interview in anything less than heels, hose, gloves, and hat. Can you imagine how strange you’d feel today, walking into somebody’s office in gloves and a hat? Yeah, gloves and a hat, that would be the one that would throw me. So you looked like, I imagine, Doris Day. Right. Oh, those were great outfits. Yeah, it was kind of fun. I always chose a big hat, big black hat. I must’ve had five big black hats. Why’d you choose the big black hat? Ann Taylor Modeling said it made my round face look more oval. So that was the— that’s interesting. Yes, it was fun. But at any rate, my parents, when I told them I’d accepted a job at Mercury Nevada, said, Where is that? UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 5 And I said, Well, I’m not really sure but it’s down by Las Vegas. [ And they said], Well, how are you going to get there? And I said, Well, I’m not really sure. I didn’t have a car. [ And they said], Well, aren’t you going to graduate? And I told them I had planned— I could do that, the tail end of it, by correspondence because I had just a little time left. So they gave me their car for graduation, and we all piled in that car and their new car and caravanned down to Mercury and got— at that time of course nobody could go in. And my dad wasn’t about to let me go through that guard gate without being along, and so he got out of the car and told the guard he’d go in with me, and the guard slapped his gun and he says, No, I don’t think so. If you haven’t got the clearance, you can’t stay here. [ Telephone rings] You want to stop? Yeah. [ 00: 02: 36] End Track 3, Disc 1. [ 00: 00: 00] Begin Track 4, Disc 1. OK, so we were talking about you’re at Mercury and— Yeah, so Mom and Dad— that was Memorial Day weekend in 1960. Well, they couldn’t get in Mercury, so they came into Las Vegas. It was packed and they had to stay at some stranger’s home, and I guess they had a good weekend but were very— At a stranger’s home? UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 6 Yes. They couldn’t find a hotel room. They finally ended up going to the Chamber of Commerce, and people were opening their homes. I think that was about the time of the Helldorado, the old Helldorado celebrations that went on for years and years here. What was that? It was parades, and they had a Helldorado Village with a carnival- like thing. There was a rodeo. It was just a big week- long— it was something that the Elks Club put on. But we used to have huge parades down Fremont Street. What was it commemorating? Just nothing. Just Helldorado, you know. It was just a big celebration. Just a big celebration. And so people would open their houses up to—? Yes. Wow, that’s odd. See, back then Vegas population was only fifty- nine, sixty thousand people. So it was fun. Now had you been to Vegas before? I came down here when a cousin got married in Boulder City, and Mom brought some of us down in ’ 57 to see Harry Belafonte, and I’ve marched in a couple of Helldorado parades, and that was it. Oh, you did? What’d you march—? I played the saxophone in our high school band. Oh, you did? That’s neat! Yes. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 7 How big was your high school? I think there were almost two hundred in my graduating class. Ely was a big mining town then. Kennecott Copper was up there, and at one time we had the largest open- faced— well, it was advertised as the largest open pit mine for copper. And then Kennecott left, and I think Ely was probably eight or nine thousand people when Kennecott pulled out. The town now probably is five thousand, forty- nine hundred, something like that. Right. But you still knew everybody in town, I would imagine. It was still kind of a small town. Yes. Especially working in the drugstore, you’d see a lot of people come in there. Oh, yeah. So you’re at Mercury and you’re starting your work. Right. How old were you? Twenty- one. Well, I would’ve been, yes, just twenty- one. Were you nervous to be on your own? You know, I was in a way, but in a way I thought— I had been so shy, it was almost like I could remake myself, so I really looked forward to it. And they had dormitories for the women out there. I’m sure you’ve heard this from others. There were seven women’s dorms. They had a Quonset hut for a theater. There was a cafeteria, a couple of cafeterias, and a rec hall. And everybody was very friendly. The only drawback was, which I found out when I first came in to Las Vegas, after I got a few paychecks, I came into a store that was on Sahara, which was then called San Francisco Street, and there was a Sarah’s Dress Shop. It just carried beautiful clothes. So I came in and found some clothes and the woman said, Well, where do you work? And I said, Mercury. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 8 She says, Oh, you’re one of those. And until that time I didn’t realize that maybe there was a little bit of a reputation if you lived out at Mercury because there were only about twenty- five women out there. And so we all kind of got branded as wild ones. I quit telling people I worked at the test site after that. Oh really! So you were looked upon as like a wild woman. Yes, and I was so naïve. I guess there were some really wild women out there. In this dormitory, every Saturday they’d come through and do an inventory of the bedding and everything, and I’d shove a chair up under my door so they’d have to really make a lot of noise to get in, so I’d be sure to be out of bed when they came in. But occasionally you’d see people bailing out of the windows of the women’s dorm and I thought hmm, what is this all about? [ laughter] It was pretty wild back in those days. So would they just come into your room? Yes. They’d knock on the door and then open it and come in and count your sheets and pillowcases. Really! Now who was doing that? Was it a man or was it—? Yeah. The Feeding and Housing Department was in charge of the dorms and all the linens and [ 00: 05: 00] everything for the dorms. So how much privacy did you have? You know, you really didn’t have a lot. Well, from the men you did have. Each dorm had a lounge, a group area, where men were allowed. They weren’t allowed beyond that, although like I say, I saw some who did get farther. I never had anyone in my room that I was aware of except these inventoriers. But you had a community shower, you know, just a big bathroom with a bunch of shower stalls and biffies [ toilets] and the sinks. And then your own private room. And UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 9 when the test site got busy, when they were going to resume atmospheric testing, they brought in Kelly Girls and hired all kinds of people, and at one time this room, which was probably about the size of this kitchen, housed four women. You each had a dresser and they had two bunk beds. And so it got very crowded. But it was kind of fun, you know. All of it was kind of a party atmosphere because you’re out here in the middle of no place. Yes. And all you have is each other. Yes. So did you like everybody that— did you like the women on your dorm? Did you make some good friendships with some of the women? Yes, I did. Yeah, I think I made better friendships out there than I did going through high school in Ely, actually. Oh, really? It’s odd. Although now I’m renewing some friendships I had in high school, just the past couple of years, through the miracle of e- mail. But yeah, you had lasting friendships. And how long were you living in the dorm? I lived there for three years. That’s a long time. I worked for FSI for about a year, then the woman that I had replaced came back and they wanted her in the job that I’d taken, so I left FSI and went to work for REECo [ Reynolds Electrical and Engineering Company], on loan to Los Alamos National Laboratory, which was called Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory back then; they put me out in Jackass Flats at the MAD [ Maintenance, Assembly, and Disassembly] Building, and that was just absolutely wonderful. It was crazy, it was fun. They built reactors with the hope of— it was the Kiwi reactor— with the UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 10 hope of using them someday to lift a spaceship into space. But they were tested nozzle up and, you’d have all these tests and the RADSAFE [ Radiological Safety] guys would stand down the road, and if you had to get in an assembly bay they’d wave a flag and lock you in a room so you’d be safe from the radiation. And at that time the dress code was heels and hose, period. No slacks. And this MAD Building, they built an extension to it— I worked in the R- MAD [ Reactor Maintenance, Assembly, and Disassembly]— and in the extension they had an assembly bay. You walked in the front door of the building, you went up some steps right by this assembly bay, and up into offices that had windows overlooking the assembly bay. It had an alarm system in case anything happened, and they determined if anything happened to that assembly bay, employees couldn’t go down that staircase because the bay was right there. Well, I would have to crawl up on a desk— So it would be contaminated, is that why? Yes. I never thought of it at the time but it wasn’t a disassembly bay. Where would the contamination come from? But they’d have these alarms and I’d have to climb up on a desk in my heels and hose, go out a window, one of those ladders hooked to the side of the building, and climb down. So I started writing memos about this view that— they wouldn’t let me throw my heels off because I’d bonk somebody in the eye. And finally when I quit there and moved into town for REECo direct, they built an outdoor staircase. Oh. Yeah. So at least you got that for the women that proceeded you. Now what did you do? What was your job? I was a secretary. I worked for the N- Division people. They were from Los Alamos and they came in— it was kind of a feast- or- famine job, you know, you’d be there alone taking care of classified materials and have a few people that are just caretaker people, but then when they UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 11 [ 00: 10: 00] started to assemble the reactor, you’d be busy for months on end with all kinds of scientists coming out. I did all their dictation, transcription, took care of all the classified material. And then they’d have the test and go into the disassembly phase where they’d disassemble the reactor and take the parts back to Los Alamos to do whatever analysis they did, and then it went back into the quiet slump. Did you learn a lot about nuclear science? Not really. I learned a lot about reactors. When I went out there, the classification was so much stricter than it ended up being when I retired. And I remember when I worked out there, Los Alamos came out with a book on what was called the Rover project or the Kiwi project, and it taught how the reactor worked, and I just thought that was a travesty. That should’ve been classified. So I refused to hand them out. I just kept them locked in the safe. Somebody else handed them out. But as they declassified things, you know I’d had classification drummed into my head when I first hired in, and I didn’t even keep one of the books for myself because I thought it was— Oh, really. Now who would ask for those books? Who would you hand them to? I never had anybody ask for one. The laboratory just sent them out and said, Pass these out to the employees. You can give them to your families. But it made me nervous. I just knew they’d come and get me if I did it. So then REECo of course provided the on- loan help out there. And the Space Nuclear Propulsion Office [ SNPO] came in and took over the reactor projects. And I don’t know how they tied in with DOE, if they were part of Department of Energy or— I’ve forgotten what that tie- in was; but at any rate, a job for a senior secretary became available in Las Vegas, so I quit UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 12 my on- loan job and moved into Las Vegas and went directly to work for REECo. And I stayed with REECo, then, till the end of my career. But I started out as a senior secretary in Special Projects, I think it was called, and I was fortunate. They asked me to go to Hattiesburg, Mississippi for a couple of weeks, and I think that was in ’ 63, ’ 64, for a nuclear test. Well, I was supposed to go for a week. I packed clothes for two weeks. Two months later I called my boss and I said, I’ve got to come home some day. But I stayed clear through the test and through some after tests, and then as the [ Lawrence] Livermore [ National Laboratory] were starting to button the things up, I finally said, I’ve got to go home. Now why’d they keep you there so long? Oh, I was such a good secretary, I guess. I don’t know. I wasn’t doing very much. I don’t know why, unless it was egos involved, who wanted a secretary there or, you know. Now when you were at Jackass Flats and working with the reactors, what was your relationship like with the scientists? How did they treat you? They were just all very nice. Very nice. There are some that I remember in particular. They were all Ph. D. s. Some of them were so eccentric. I met just a couple that were really well- rounded, could talk about a lot of things. Others were just so tunneled in on their jobs. There was one man who just loved to fight. He’d hand me something in a plastic bag with radiation seals on it and say, Transcribe this, and I’m telling him, I’m not opening that envelope, and he’d fire me. And then he’d move to the other side of the MAD Building. He’d fire me. I’d tell him, You couldn’t. I don’t work for you. I work for REECo. He just enjoyed being that eccentric. When Los Alamos wanted me to come to Los Alamos on some job [ 00: 15: 00] interviews, he was one of my biggest supporters. Strange. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 13 So it was just very weird. Yeah, they intrigued me. One of them, and I don’t remember this man’s name, but I was told that he’d even shower in a suit instead of sending his suit to the dry cleaners. He would get into the shower? Get into the shower. And I did see, myself, he’d go to the Planning Board meetings NVOO would have. Nevada Operations Office would have Planning Board meetings to talk about the directions of the tests, any special problems, it was the big, important group that met to talk about the affairs at the test site. And he’d take his hat off and sit on it. Needless to say, his hat was just as battered. You know, they were just very strange. So you had quite a mixture of personalities and— Oh yes. So you’d have to be able to blend with that, right? Yeah. It was fun. I really enjoyed it. Now did you eat lunch by yourself or did you have to take—? Because I’m imagining you kind of off in this isolated area. Well, you’re off in the isolated area but there was a control point. As you went out to Jackass Flats you got to a control point, and then MAD Building was off to the right a couple of miles from that. There was a Livermore area before you got there. It was the Pluto facility. But at this control point— and from there they conducted and watched the tests that they had at the various test cells for the reactor— they had a wonderful cafeteria. Oh yeah. Yes, and REECo took care of that. Oh, really? So they subsidized the cafeteria for everybody? UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 14 Yes. And it was really good. So everybody’d go over there together. I don’t think I ever ate a meal alone. And did you see any atmospheric tests? Yes, I just got to see two. I didn’t realize the moratorium was on when I hired on down there. But when they resumed testing I got to watch two. One of them-- there were about three women that worked out there in the MAD Building area, and we got in a pickup together to go over to Frenchman Flat, or Yucca, to watch this atmospheric test only. Norma, one of the women, was slow and late. Norma Cox? No, it was Norma Hoskin. And so we’re on our way over there and we see the mushroom cloud, and a guard comes rolling along and he says, You know, you better get back to the MAD Building. It’s coming this way. So that’s as much of it as I got to see. Oh wow! So the cloud was going to come— Yes, over that area. So what was your impression of the cloud, of seeing it? You know, it just looked like a little cloud. It just was nothing very impressive. I did get to see one test, but it was a very, very small one, where I actually sat in bleachers and watched it. More impressive to me was some high explosive tests they did out there, where they’d line up high explosives in a row, and I think they were probably doing these to look at peaceful uses of nuclear weapons. Like at one time they thought of doing something like a Panama Canal- type thing. And so they’d set off these huge high explosive shots and oh, impressive, the way the earth’d billow up and around and— just beautiful. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 15 Really? Now were you ever nervous about working, especially in that building, you know, where it could become contaminated? Were you nervous about radiation? No, I never was. I can remember my mom telling me when I came down here— she and Dad weren’t all thrilled and overwhelmed about it— and one of the last things my mom told me before I left is, Don’t stand too close to the radiation. But I always felt— REECo always had a really good safety policy, and of course it evolved over the years and got more and more and more— but not safety awareness because they were always aware of the safety, but scientifically they learned more things. So they always watched out for our safety, and I remember Cliff Penwell telling me one day You’re going to get more radiation from [ 00: 20: 00] an irradium- dialed watch than you will anything we’re doing out here. And then I got to see— they would keep us inside, it was a lot more casual, admittedly, than it was in later years— but I got to see them bring the reactor into the disassembly bay. And their windows were something like eight feet with this special glass a foot apart filled with mineral oil in between, and they had manipulator arms that American Can and Foundry ( ACF) technicians would use to disassemble this. They had little railroad tracks that ran around, and could take the hot cells, the rods, out of this reactor and put them in little railroad cars and go up to special sealed rooms, hot rooms, and those were so sealed and clean. I went into the disassembly bay many times after reactor tests, after they’d cleaned it and so I was just never worried about it. That’s interesting. But that must’ve been fascinating just to watch that. Oh, it was. Yes, it was. [ 00: 21: 12] End Track 4, Disc 1. [ 00: 00: 00] Begin Track 5, Disc 1. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 16 OK, so we were talking about that really fascinating, what was it, a reactor that they were working on? Yes. What was that called? Kiwi. Project Kiwi, which is a flightless bird, an extinct flightless bird. Oh! Yeah. I kept thinking of the fruit. Yeah, I know. And it was nuclear- powered and they were doing the engine. Then it had a nozzle, when it’s in flight, and later— I didn’t work on the NERVA [ Nuclear Engine for Rocket Vehicle Application] project, I think it was, where they flipped that engine so that the thrust would come down into a, for want of a better word, a ditch— it was kind of like a ditch— and they could see how much force this engine would have in its right configuration. But just to develop the engine, they did it so that all the effluent from the engine went up into the air. And that’s why they would watch the— you could never do it today, but that’s why they would watch the wind, the weather, before they’d do a test, to make sure that any radiation from that test would stay contained pretty much where it was. So was that on a bottom floor and then you were up on a top floor in the offices? Yes. Yes. Was it noisy or was it—? Oh, we weren’t there when they— well, we’d be there when the test-- but where they tested it. That’s where they just assembled it. Then they had railroad tracks that it would take it two miles or more to a test cell away from the MAD Building. And those test cells, they took them up to all the gases and whatever they needed to make the engine run, and do the test from the test cell. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 17 After that was done, they’d set the engine down on its side, bring it back to the MAD Building, disassemble it, and analyze what happened to the reactor rods. And they would do that in the building where you were on top doing your office work. Right. Well, yes, except that was in the old part of the building. I also had an office kind of around the corner from the disassembly bay. There were offices in there, but they were so shielded. Oh, they were— with metal or—? Just big thick rebarred walls. But that’s where the windows to that disassembly bay were. We’re talking eight feet. Thick? Yeah. Wow! Now did you have to wear a radiation badge or—? We all did in those days. Your badge had a little plastic— I hadn’t thought of that for years. And it seems to me, if I remember it right, it kind of looked like what the dentist sticks in your tooth when he’s X- raying your teeth. And you wore that on the back of your badge, and you had to change it once a month. And did yours ever— would it go off if—? No, they wouldn’t go off anyway. They weren’t real dosimeters. They just measured what you were getting, and then the laboratory— I think REECo’s RADSAFE lab— would read them and figure out if you had any exposure. I’ve never had any exposure. My husband has a little bit, I think, from the forward areas, but none for me. Now how did you like working with the people there? Were they— did you joke or—? I’ve always loved working with people. Oh yes. Yes. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 18 Oh, so was it a lighthearted atmosphere or was it real serious? No, it was always a lighthearted atmosphere. And I remember that until maybe my last three or four years of work. It was always lighthearted. The more regulations that came in— and of course when you’re out in the field it’s more lighthearted than when you’re in Mercury. And Mercury’s more lighthearted than when you’re in Las Vegas at the main offices. But my recollection of my whole time out at the test site was that it was— you worked hard, you played hard, you just had a ball. And I was always very fortunate to be in an office where I got to see part of everything that was going on. I could go out and witness tests. I could sit in the CP, the control point, to watch anything that was going on. I had a lot of meetings. Sandia [ National Laboratories] had a tunnel out there. I went to a lot of meetings in the bottom of a tunnel. I’ve climbed on top of drill rigs. And it was so fun. And everybody had an attitude where we can do it. Whatever needs to be done, we can do it, and it got done. And then over the years more [ 00: 05: 0