Skip to main content

Search the Special Collections and Archives Portal

Transcript of interview with Cathy Morales-Jackson by Claytee White, May 5, 2010


Download OH_01325_book_o.pdf (application/pdf; 30.92 MB)





Catherine (Cathy) Morales-Jackson grew up in the suburban tranquility of Hazlet, New Jersey, with five siblings, a stay-at-home mom and her father, who served the community as mayor and as a school board member. In 1981, "on the day Princess Diana go married," Cathy moved to Las Vegas with her boyfriend/future husband and her mother-in-law. Life in Las Vegas was distinctively different than living in New Jersey she explains. For the next 15 years, they lived at Delta Gardens apartments on Paradise. She started working at UNLV's library as it was moving into a new building. He first position was in the periodicals and microfilm area and in binding. She contrasts both details of the campus and the city then with how it is today. At the time of this interview, Cathy was taking an early retirement at the age of 51. She provides a retrospective of a range of library topics: from the thousands of volumes she bound to the move to Lied Library, from a Celebrity Pancake fundraiser to staff parties, and from the implementation of a campus parking fee to the various library organizations that she has belonged to over the years. Cathy loved her years in the university libraries and feels that the current budget crises is the biggest change she has witnessed. Retirement came at an opportune time for her, but she worries about the future for others.

Digital ID


Physical Identifier



Morales-Jackson, Cathy Interview, 2010 May 5. OH-01325. [Transcript.] Oral History Research Center, Special Collections & Archives, University Libraries, University of Nevada, Las Vegas. Las Vegas, Nevada


This material is made available to facilitate private study, scholarship, or research. It may be protected by copyright, trademark, privacy, publicity rights, or other interests not owned by UNLV. Users are responsible for determining whether permissions are necessary from rights owners for any intended use and for obtaining all required permissions. Acknowledgement of the UNLV University Libraries is requested. For more information, please see the UNLV Special Collections policies on reproduction and use ( or contact us at

Standardized Rights Statement

Digital Provenance

Digitized materials: physical originals can be viewed in Special Collections and Archives reading room



Geographic Coordinate

36.17497, -115.13722



An Interview with Catherine Morales-Jackson An Oral History Conducted by Claytee D. White The Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas ©The Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2007 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV - University Libraries Director and Editor: Claytee D. White Assistant Editors: Barbara Tabach and Gloria Homol Transcribers: Kristin Hicks and Laurie Boetcher Interviewers and Project Assistants: Suzanne Becker, Nancy Hardy, Joyce Moore, Andres Moses, Laura Plowman, Emily Powers, Dr. Dave Schwartz ii The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of Dr. Harold Boyer and the Library Advisory Committee. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank the university for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases, photographic sources (housed separately) accompany the collection as slides or black and white photographs. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project. Additional transcripts may be found under that series title. Claytee D. White, Project Director Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University Nevada, Las Vegas iii Preface Catherine (Cathy) Morales-Jackson grew up in the suburban tranquility of Hazlet, New Jersey, with five siblings, a stay-at-home mom and her father, who served the community as mayor and as a school board member. In 1981, "on the day Princess Diana go married," Cathy moved to Las Vegas with her boyfriend/future husband and her mother-in-law. Life in Las Vegas was distinctively different than living in New Jersey she explains. For the next 15 years, they lived at Delta Gardens apartments on Paradise. She started working at UNLV's library as it was moving into a new building. He first position was in the periodicals and microfilm area and in binding. She contrasts both details of the campus and the city then with how it is today. At the time of this interview, Cathy was taking an early retirement at the age of 51. She provides a retrospective of a range of library topics: from the thousands of volumes she bound to the move to Lied Library, from a Celebrity Pancake fundraiser to staff parties, and from the implementation of a campus parking fee to the various library organizations that she has belonged to over the years. Cathy loved her years in the university libraries and feels that the current budget crises is the biggest change she has witnessed. Retirement came at an opportune time for her, but she worries about the future for others. iv ORAL HISTORY RESEARCH CENTER AT UNLV Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project Name of Narrator: Name of Interviewer: Use Agreement I/iu I T£ We, tlie above named, give interview(s) initiated on di<f Oral History Research Center of UNLV, die recorded t l3iota as an unrestricted gift, to be used for such scholarly and educational purposes as shall be determined, and transfer to die University of Nevada Las Vegas, legal tide and all literary property rights including copyright. Tliis gift does not preclude die right of die interviewer, as a representative of UNLV, to use die recordings and related materials for scholarly pursuits. There will be no compensation for any interviews. 0. Signature of Narrato£/ X /V/g Date Library Special Collections 4505 Maryland Parkway, Box 457010, Las Vegas, Nevada 89154-7070 (702) 895-2222 1 This is Claytee White. I'm with Catherine Morales-Jackson. And we call you Cathy? Yes. Okay. It is May 5th, 2010. And we're in the library, in my office in Special Collections. How are you doing today? Okay. How are you? Wonderful. The first thing I want you to do is spell your name. Morales probably. I think we can spell the rest of it. But it's Catherine with a C. Catherine with a C. C-A-T-H-E-R-I-N-E. Morales, M-O-R-A-L-E-S, dash, Jackson. Good. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Now, you look just a bit nervous. I don't want you to be nervous. I just want you to tell me about your childhood, where you grew up, your mother's and father's names and if you have brothers and sisters and the kinds of things you did as a kid. I was born in the Bronx, Bronx, New York, 1959. I lived in the Bronx till I was three years old. Then we moved to Hazlet, New Jersey. Actually, I really had a wonderful childhood. We lived in a cul-de-sac. There were 13 houses. We had woods on the block. We had a farmer, Farmer Higgins that lived on the block. It was a very close-knit block. All the parents knew everybody else's parents. We played out in the street and in the cul-de-sac. We played kick ball. We would go hiking in the woods. And we had swings in the woods. There was a little pond where we'd go ice-skating in the wintertime and sleigh riding in the wintertime. School was walking distance. I went to the same grammar school from kindergarten until fourth grade, which was Cove Road School. Then in fifth grade I was transferred to another school, Union Avenue, which was still pretty much walking distance. Then sixth grade I went back to Cove Road School. And that went up to eighth grade. We didn't have middle schools at that time. Why did you switch? I don't know if it was because of overcrowding, so they did some transferring of students. But I ended up going back to Cove Road seventh and eighth grade. Graduated eighth grade from Cove Road. And then high school I went to Rariton High School. So basically I've only been to two 2 schools. I graduated high school. My father was on the board of education and he handed me my high school diploma. That was one of the happiest days of his life because I was quite the handful in school. There are six kids in my family. I have four brothers and a sister. Joseph, Robert, Steve, Paul and Melissa. My sister is the youngest, who is now going on 42. The oldest, Joe, is 58. Right now as of today, though, both my parents are not with us anymore. My mother died in 1989 and my father died in 2005. So my mother's been gone a very, very long time. Growing up my mother didn't work. She was a stay-at-home mom. Matter of fact, my mother didn't even drive. I remember going to the grocery store many times with my mother and wheeling home the grocery cart, coming home across the foot bridge because my father was at work. My father worked in New York City. He commuted every day into the city. What kind of work? My father was a systems analyst. He worked for Alexander department store. Things that I remember. Actually he worked for Shell Oil for I think 15 years. He worked for Alexander department stores for 11 years. And then he retired from Saks Fifth Avenue as a senior systems analyst. My father was the mayor of our town at one time. Growing up politics was very much the thing in my household. I can imagine. My father was on the township committee and ended up being mayor of the town. He was actually the longest mayor Hazlet Township ever had. He served five consecutive years. So I was growing up the mayor's daughter, see. Was that good or bad? It was actually good. Was it like a preacher's daughter? Oh, no, no. It was good. I was always so proud of my father. I was very proud of him. That's wonderful. The whole political scene, even though I was young, was still exciting. I still remember election days when the polls closed and the phones start ringing in the house and stuff like that. I still remember one time they had a ceremony for my father being the mayor and we all had to dress up. 3 I just remember that being a real special day. The town I come from, Hazlet, at the time was probably only like 25, 30,000 people. Today I believe it probably has about 50, 60,000 people. So it has grown. What kind of industry is there? Okay. You don't remember. No. I just wonder why it would grow. Well, more homes, of course. So a lot of people commute into the city? Yes. Yes, it's a lot of commuting. I see. So did you get a discount at Saks Fifth Avenue? I lived out here in Vegas when my father worked there. But there was one time when my father came to visit me. We made sure we went over to the Fashion Show Mall and he took me to Saks Fifth Avenue. But unfortunately at the time I became a pretty casual person. When I was growing up we never wore sneakers, maybe once in a while in the fall. If you went to the park, you put on sneakers. Otherwise, you pretty much always looked dressed up. Or Easter time, your little Easter outfit and your Easter bonnets and stuff. Winter coats. That kind of stuff I do miss, which is very nice. But when I moved out to Las Vegas, I became very casual dresser. The time when my father took me over to Saks, I'm looking around and I'm seeing all these beautiful clothes, these dresses. And I'm like what am I going to find? I'll wear it once. I remember I bought a really nice sweatshirt, button-up that said Saks Fifth Avenue and some nice shorts. God knows what he paid for it. Actually I still have the jacket because I'll always keep that. That's great. It doesn't fit me anymore, but I'll always keep it. I grew up it was a nice neighborhood, very, very nice people. Of course, we're Catholic. Well, my father was a big church-goer. Every Sunday. And we did go. We made our communion and our confirmations. I remember many times walking to church. Oh, that sounds like so much fun. Yeah. It was a time when we could still hang around the schoolyard. There weren't fences around 4 the schoolyard. After school you could play on the school grounds. We would ride our bikes to Holmdel Park. In a car it was a good 30 minutes away. We would ride our bikes all the way to Holmdel Park. Half the time, we never even told our parents. This is probably seventh, eighth grade, freshman year in high school and we'd really get around on our bikes. Did a lot of activities outside the home. Real early in life we didn't have pools, so you played out in the sprinklers. And then ran around barefoot a lot. I did step on a nail, stepped on bees in the grass and stuff. But the fun thing was playing in the woods, too. It wasn't a big, huge wood, but the farmer owned the woods. So you did have to be careful how far you went because you knew if you went a little too far, if he was watching, we'd get yelled at and get in trouble. So what kind of crops did he raise? Actually none that I'm really aware of at that time. I don't know how long he had been there. I really don't know how long the farm had been there because all I'm aware of is woods and the farmer's daughters. I remember they weren't the friendliest people at all. Yeah, it was kind of like that scary house over there. Yeah, one of those. And then he had a dog named Coco, who was this brown dog, just a mutt. We had a dog named Star and she was an English setter. And Coco three times got my Star pregnant. And Star always had lots of puppies. My mother would always blame it on Coco. And I won't tell you what my mother called my dog after Coco got Star. So how did you get to Las Vegas? It wasn't anything we really thought too hard about. At the time I was with my husband. We weren't married. I met my husband in 1980 and we were dating. My father-in-law had died before I even met him, like the year before, 1979. So my mother-in-law was alone. I guess that she and my father-in-law used to come to Vegas on vacations all the time. One of their dreams was to eventually move to Las Vegas and retire. So my mother-in-law kept that in her mind and she decided one day that she was going to move to Las Vegas. Actually at the time — before I came to Vegas, I was in Miamisburg, Ohio for three months. We were with my brother-in-law [John], because New Jersey at the time « you know, we needed a change. So we went and visited John. And then during that time is when my mother-in-law decided she was going to move to Las Vegas. So we just decided on a whim. So I went back home to New Jersey for a week so I could pack. And that's when I told my parents I was going to 5 Las Vegas. Yeah, that wasn't a real good thing. Yes. Especially for your father who was a leader in the town. He was actually mayor from 1958 to '62. I'm kind of regressing a minute here ~ our town used to be Rariton Township. During the time that my father was mayor, they changed the name of the town. I'm not really positive why. Then they changed it to Hazlet Township. Okay. I lost track now. We were talking about moving to Las Vegas. So you went back home. Right. Then I told my father and mother. And, of course, now they weren't real happy with me. Then I came to Las Vegas. We lived on Paradise Road at Delta Garden Apartments for 15 years. Where on Paradise is that? On Paradise between Twain and ~ what is it? - Twain and Desert Inn. It is now the Embassy Suites. When we moved into Delta Gardens 29 years ago, it was old then. And the original man who built it still was there, Lynn. I'll never forget Lynn and his family. My mother-in-law came out here on vacation with a friend of hers and found a place to live. And that's when she went back and said, okay, we're moving. So then my husband and I ~ I didn't have a whole lot to pack up. We threw it on her truck. And Bobby and I flew out here to Vegas. We got out here before her. Then it was like, well, I'm not living near your mother, with your mother; we've got to find a place to live. Our first four days we roamed around Las Vegas walking on foot for a place to live. We kept coming back to Delta Gardens because until she got here we were sleeping on the floor in the apartment. And then finally I went into Lynn because he was also into the real estate stuff. So I figured, well, let me ask him if he knows where. And then he said, well, I just happen to have a lady moving out. And Delta Gardens was four complexes, 96 apartments, but four sections. They had four pools, four laundry rooms. So it wasn't real big. It was for mostly senior citizens. They didn't call it a senior citizen place, but more older people. There were no kids. We were like the youngest ones. Then he said, well, I happen to have one. So he showed us. This lady was still moving out. For $295 it was a two bedroom, furnished apartment and it was right up the stairs. The pool was downstairs. We had a balcony in front, balcony in back. It was an eat-in kitchen, lots of cabinets. It was the greatest thing for $295. 6 So that was all right, I guess and I [decided to] live in the same complex as his mother. So when she came to Vegas, she asked, Where are you living? Well, right here in Delta Gardens. And we lived there 15 years. I had both my children there, Nicholas and Courtney. Let's see. Nicholas was born June 11th, 1987. Courtney was bom February 5th, 1992. Okay. So in 1980 when you first came, there was seven years without children. 1981 we came. We got married in '83, a very quick, not planned wedding. It was like one day, oh, yeah, we're going to get married. In the meantime I begged him for years to marry me. And it was like, oh, what was I thinking? Finally one day he came in, okay, let's go get married. It was like what am I going to wear? Oh, my goodness. So, yeah, I happened to have a hat and a nice skirt. We went and got my mother-in-law and her friend and went down and got a quick chapel wedding. And where did we go afterwards? We ended up going ~ I don't even know if it's still called Hughes Airport, that private airport. There was a little bar up there. And that was the place where a lot of the stars - their private planes came in. So that's where we spent it. And then we ended up going over to — or at least that weekend — over to the Ambassador. They had a band there. It was like my husband said, oh, this is our wedding song. And I'm like, well, what is that? "Unchained Melody." And then the couple sang it for us and we danced. Actually it was funny because the couple that sang and we became good friends. They came to my Nicholas' christening. Oh, that's great. That is wonderful. So that was just quick Las Vegas wedding. What did your parents think about you getting married and not letting them know? Before I went to get married, I called my mother up and I did tell her. So rather than living in sin, she was happy that I was getting married. And I know it made my father happy. Of course. Yeah. Yeah, most definitely. So what does a young couple in Las Vegas six years, no children, do for entertainment? We had very good neighbors. We became very friendly with this couple that lived next door to us, Jim and Maria Barker. Maria was from Spain and Jim was retired military and originally from Missouri. He met Maria in Spain and they married. So anyway, they were our next-door 7 neighbors for 15 years. They were older than us, but we partied with them a lot. Because my mother-in-law lived there, too, we did a lot of family things. Good. Did you do things on the Strip? Definitely in our early days we did. My mother-in-law worked at Silver City. She was a change woman at Silver City. We used to go to the Stardust. The Westward Ho. I'll never forget the Westward Ho. The first few years they had their free flowing champagne. And they had free lounge acts. When my father used to come to visit, well, okay, I have to take you over to the Westward Ho because they've got free flowing champagne. And then they had a little bar where you got 50-cent shots of something or 25-cent glasses of beer. And then, of course, my father's very personable being the politician that he is, and he always liked entertainment too. And, of course, all this is after my mother had passed. There was a band, a woman, entertainment at their lounge. I think they were called the Mayflowers or something, three sisters that used to sing. And they were so talented with their instruments. Of course, my father got to know them. So anytime he came to Vegas for a couple of years, they were there and we went and saw them. So I was very sad to see the Westward Ho go. And even the Stardust. That was a nice place to go, too. We remember the Silver Slipper. The Holiday Inn we'd go there for breakfasts. The Westward Ho with their little deli, the biscuits and gravy for 49 cents. And then, of course, going downtown. Whenever company came in town, you had to show them downtown. And go to the back of the Horseshoe to that bar. You want a 50-cent shot. Dad, we know where to drink really cheap. But then all the free entertainment. It was like such wonderful entertainment back then in the 80s. Good. Good. And then we'd go to Mount Charleston, of course, and have picnics and things like that. What kind of work did your husband find when he first came? My husband was a bartender back in New Jersey. I met him as a bartender. Before I came to Las Vegas, I worked at Brookdale Community College in Lincroft, New Jersey, as a secretary for the educational opportunity fund director. That was a very, very nice job. My husband worked in a local bar and that's where I met him. [He also] worked for the Better Business Bureau for about three years. 8 Here in Las Vegas? Here in Las Vegas. He also worked out of the airport with — I don't know the name of the company. I just remember the man's name, Fred Wilson. They used to bring Canadian tours in. They used to have to go to the airport and meet the people. I'm not really sure what you call it. But eventually he ended up getting a bartender job over at the Rainbow Club in Henderson. That's a very old local casino. And he worked there for 12 years as the bartender there. And now he's been a banquet bartender over at Caesars Palace for about six years now. So he stayed in the industry. Yes. Now, what about you? How did you get to UNLV? Well, because I did work at a community college back there, I went because where we lived on Paradise Road and the university was so close, I said, I might as well at least try for a job there. I went to human resources and put in an application. Actually the day we moved to Las Vegas Princess Di was getting married (July 29, 1981). We left New York that day, that morning. I'll never forget because that was the last thing you remember seeing on the TV, Princess Di on the television going to get married. Then we had to go to the airport. Then I think, oh gosh, it was sometime at night, ten, 11 at night or something. And you had only been to the West Coast one other time in my life, to California. So that was only like the second time I really flew. And then when we got off the plane in Las Vegas, it wasn't in the airport. We walked down the stairs and we were right on the outside platform, you know. And the heat just -- the heat hit us. I was like, oh, no, this is ten o'clock at night. If it's like this then, you know on July 29th—. Anyway, it was Princess Di's wedding day I waited about a week because I didn't want to look for a job right away. I ended up like I say coming to the university. After I submitted my application, did the typing test, then I had an interview with Dolores Santa Cruz at the time in the library. She pretty much hired me on the spot and September 14th I started my job. I was very, very lucky. Yes. Now, tell me about Dolores Santa Cruz. I don't think I have ever heard that name. Well, Dolores, she retired from the library, oh, my goodness, at least ten years ago. Well, even more. Okay. We're in this building ten years, right? 9 Yes. I think it's nine years, almost ten. Nine years, almost ten. So it could be almost 15 years ago Dolores retired. But unfortunately she's also passed on. She died about three years ago, Dolores. But she worked 30 years in the library. Wow. So what position did she hold? She was in charge of the periodicals, microfilm area. So when I started in the library, I was in the periodicals, microfilm area and public service. And I did work nights. I worked weekends. So now, was that the old second floor of the rectangular building? That was the third floor, third floor of the rectangular ~ right. Actually the year I started, 1981, that's when the rectangular building was open. And I got here just in time for the big ceremony. What was that like? What a party it was let me tell you. I couldn't believe it. I went home to tell my husband. Well, first of all, I'm going to work in a library. I wasn't real good at that time about reading books either. I was young. I was 21, maybe 22. So never mind going to work in a library, but then, oh, my goodness, a brand-new library. It was connected to the old library, but I'm still going to work in the new library. And then I remember it was just like a week or two later ™ I think it was Hal Erickson, who was the director at the time. They had a party on every floor, every floor. I remember a big, huge cake. They had to have a thousand people that came to this ceremony for the new building. And food like you wouldn't believe and hors d'oeuvres. I mean it was spectacular. It was actually spectacular. It was so nice. Thank you for telling me that because no one had ever told me about the opening of that building. The opening of the James R. Dickinson, yes. But that was quite the place and quite the party. So tell me what your first job was like. Periodicals department. And you were considered what? At the time the title was - of course, classified worker. But what was my title? It wasn't library assistant. I came in as — I should know this and I'm forgetting. No problem. 10 I'll maybe come back to that. My title changed. I m sure it changed many times over the years. Yes. Now, of course, they got tech ones and stuff like that where I'm still in the library assistant mode. I understand. It s kind of like, let's see, bibliographers or liaison? I still like saying bibliographer. Just like cataloging department or BMS? What was your assignment for work? Mostly I'm bindery. I wasn't the supervisor of the bindery area, but I was in charge of all the binding of the periodicals for 20 years. So once you got the four quarters of a journal — Yeah, or completed volumes or whatever, then we used to deal with Roswell bookbinding. Just bind and bind and bind because at the time the library had lots of money and we had lots of things to bind. So that kept us really busy besides waiting on the patrons. And then at the time we had the newspapers. We had microfilm. We had, again at that time, lots of newspapers. I remember the whole floor being just packed. Then, eventually learning how to check in and then supervising student workers. But for 20 years my main job was being in charge of the bindery unit. Who worked with you over though years, the people who are memorable? I've worked with Chris Wiatrowski. I don't know what year she came in, but she came in. Her baby was the microfilm carrier, but Chris also helped me. She helped me a lot in the bindery unit. And Dolores -- actually she was Dolores Blackledge and Dolores Santa Cruz. I can't remember what her name was when she left because she had been married once before and changed names. And then there was a woman named Doris. I can't remember Doris' name either. Unfortunately she passed. And a woman named May Workman. She retired from the library. She also passed. Unfortunately a lot of people passed. And Pam Sitton. Pamela Sitton was my supervisor for many years. And the supervisor above her was Dorothy Winter. And Dorothy is also retired from the library. I had another supervisor named Elizabeth Parang, who's no longer here. Matter of fact, everybody left and I'm still here. You started at 22. 11 Yes. And you still are young. And I've seen a lot. I actually was counting one day, too, how many directors of the library. I came in with Hal Erickson. But soon after that then it was Mary Dale. Then we had Matt Simon. Myoung-ja Lee Kwon, I believe she was an interim if I'm not mistaken. And then Dr. Marks and now Patty. Yes. So which of those people is the most memorable for you? Most memorable? Probably Mary Dale Deacon. Okay. And why? Mary Dale, she was a very down to earth person. I also had a lot of respect for her. I thought she was very good at what she did. She was a good people person. She cared about her staff. She was very easy to talk to. There were a lot of memories with her. We had this one big book sale. If I went back in my records, I know I have a record what year it was. But it was a huge, gigantic book sale that the library had that we planned for months and months and months, for this huge back sale. We had another big party after that. We are just the partying crew let me tell you. But now, the book sale brought in a lot of money. Everybody worked really hard. And I don't know where we got all these books from. Were you working with the library — were they called Friends of the Library at the time? Yes, Friends of the Library. Yes. Yes. Tell me how the book sale was set up. Was it outside or in a building? It was on the first floor of the round building and partly outside too. It was just this huge, huge book sale. It was very, very successful because everybody worked so hard. So Mary Dale rewarded everybody. It was like a barbeque-type thing, but a lot of people. And then we used to have New Year's Eve parties, Christmas parties, Thanksgiving parties. How could you have a New Year's Eve party? We just had a fun crew back then. Back then we were actually allowed to have alcohol at our parties and stuff. So we'd have spiked punches. Now we have wine. Yes. Actually our parties are very nice, too. The staff threw the parties, though. They were all 12 potlucks. Everybody brought something. Then we did have our Classified Association I think at that time — I m going way back — collected some dues or something. So there were ways of being able to purchase food and stuff like that, too. Tell me about the Classified Association. The Library Classified Staff Association has been around as long as I can remember. But unfortunately right now today it's inactive. But we've had a Classified Library Association always. We used to have - I mean there's bylaws and there's a president and a secretary. Well, there used to be a treasurer, no longer a treasurer — where the classified staff could go and have meetings and air out their views, opinions and concerns. Also the classified staff going way back - I'm going back over 20 years ago now when we were in the old building - used to throw a lot of the social gatherings. Also at the time if people were ill, we would have like a get-well committee where people would have cards and you'd make sure that cards were distributed if someone had an operation or was sick. And we'd do educational things too. Like I say, through the years, though, the staff has grown so much compared to when I first started even though it seemed big then because, again, the library, James R. Dickinson, was the round building, rectangular building with that tunnel going across. And everybody used to complain about that striped rug or something that made them dizzy going across the tunnel. Everybody knew one another, all the staff. It was very friendly. Not that it's not friendly now, it's just that there's so many staff and people are very busy. Because of technology everybody's sitting in a cubicle now in front of a computer. People aren't up and about like they used to be. Do you think that in addition that the move from that location to this location changed the dynamics as well? Yes, I do believe that. In what ways did you see that? Other people told me that the morale changed. What kinds of changes did you see with the move? I think maybe part of the reason morale changes is because of how the work is done, how the work is performed. Again, that's when everybody went to cubicles. There's always been jokes about cubicles, little comic strips about cubicles. And it's true people become in their own little world in their cubicle and they have their headphones on. So people aren't communicating as much. 13 They're not even getting to know their coworkers. I work in an area where people hardly talk at all and not even talk about work. That's the other sad thing. There was a time going back to the old library with my supervisors and coworkers when we had meetings, we'd sit in a conference room and we'd have a meeting and everybody talked in our meetings. Everybody gave input and most everybody cared. Now what I see in some of these bigger staff meetings, most people are there just because they just have to be in the meeting, but nobody's talking. If it's not directly going to affect them, it's not of any interest. So I would say as far as morale it's because people just aren't seeing anybody. Now we're behind closed doors. Of course, for the past nine years, I've been in technical services. So from the bindery area you go to technical services? Nothing in between that? Right. I've always been pretty much periodicals. Bindery was periodicals. Now the past eight years I've been doing serials, but it's still in the periodicals area and it's all kind of like the same thing. I know a lot of people find that very interesting that I've never moved. And it wasn't like I never tried for other jobs in the library. There were times I've actually tried in the past. A long time ago, I think twice, at least once in Special Collections I tried for a job and in Government Publications I tried for a job twice in that department. When the name changed to technical services from the other kinds of titles that we used to have, what changed along with that, just more technology? Actually even when I started in the library in 1981, there was a technical services unit. And that consisted of acquisitions and cataloging and the serials librarian. Then they called it BMS and I'm in MOR, which is materials, ordering and receiving. The