Transcript of interview with John L. Houck by Perry L. Smith, March 14, 1981

UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck i An Interview with John L. Houck An Oral History Conducted by Perry Smith Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck ii © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2019 UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck iii The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck iv Abstract On March 14, 1981, collector Perry L. Smith interviewed police officer, John L. Houck, (born May 11th, 1944 in Butte, Montana) in his home in Las Vegas, Nevada. This interview offers an overview of the history of Las Vegas and insider details on early Las Vegas police work. The interview concludes with a discussion on Henderson and Boulder City. UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 1 Okay. I’m interviewing John. He’s my next door neighbor. He’s a policeman for the Las Vegas Metro Police Department. And are you—you’re just a cycle cop, right? Yes. Okay, John. John’s a motorcycle cop for the Metropolitan Police Department in Las Vegas. How long did—when did you first come to Las Vegas, John? In 1953. Did you come in with your parents? Yes. Mm-hmm. Where were you born at? Butte, Montana. Oh really? How come they—? How come your parents decided to come over here? Or did you come over here—no, you were a little kid, I guess, you came up with them, right? Right. We— Go ahead. Well, because of the gambling; my father had been involved in gambling all his life. (Laughs) Oh really? Are your parents still alive? Yes. Mm. So you were born in Butte, Montana. What’d your dad do there? He was there—there was a gambling hall there. In Butte, is it legal? Yes. It is? Uh-huh. UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 2 You mean just like you can play poker there? Yes. Oh. Card room type. Card room and keno type things. Oh. I didn’t know that. And so Las Vegas interested him to come over here, right? Yes. Well, he had been here before. Did you—did you like it or did it really matter to you when you came out here as a little kid? Did you like it better say, then where you were? Yes. It’s always harder to leave your hometown and your family. Yes. That’s for sure. Did you ever go back? Oh yes. We go back and visit. What did you do, like as a child when you first came to Las Vegas? There really wasn’t that much—I guess our biggest recreation was probably swimming. Oh yes. At the Doolittle Recreation Center. And then, there was another swimming pool, the Twin Lakes swimming pool. Mm-hmm. And Doolittle Recreation Center was the newest swimming pool in town about that time. And then there was the Old Fort swimming hole down at Washington and Las Vegas Boulevard North. Oh really, is it there now? No. It’s there where the Old Fort is, there by the Ox Stadium, it was in that area. The Old—oh, is that that old Mormon settlement? UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 3 Yes. They talk about over there? Yes. Yes. I heard they’re restoring that now. Yes. I guess—to make it open to the public again. There used to be an old swimming hole there—well, swimming pool. Mm-hmm. And then, I guess Twin Lakes and then Doolittle. Let’s see. Did you play any sports when you got into like junior high and high school? No. I worked—I’ve always worked, since I was in about the sixth grade, either paper routes or in grocery stores. Oh yes. Do you wish you would have played sports instead of work, during high school? No. Not really. ‘Cause I think it—I think working gave me a lot of—oh, responsibilities. Yes. I can see that, I did the same thing. How many family members do you have? Just one brother. Mm. That’s—do you see him often? Probably a couple times a month, once a month. Are your parents still alive? Yes. Mm-hmm. Are they in Las Vegas? Yes. Oh, they are? UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 4 Mm-hmm. What other activities did you have that you can (Laughs) remember when you were a kid in Las Vegas? Oh mostly, bicycle riding, motorcycle riding. Oh, did you ride dirt bikes or something like that? Yes. And they’d be determined (unintelligible). What year did you graduate from high school? Sixty-one. Sixty-one? What’d you do after you got out of high school, then? Went into service. Oh, what branch? The Navy. Navy, how long were you in there for? Oh, a little over three years. Were you in any fighting or anything? No. I was in the medical core. I was on a hospital shift. Oh, I see. Did you go travel around a lot, then? No. I was stationed in San Diego and Long Beach. Mm-hmm. When you first came to Las Vegas, can you like remember the population (unintelligible)? I mean you know was it considerably smaller than it is now? It was still a small town then, ‘cause we came here in 1953. Mm-hmm. And—oh, I don’t even think like the university—was just being built, or it was built after that. UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 5 Oh really? And Sahara Boulevard, what was it called? Sahara Boulevard was called San Francisco Boulevard. Oh really? (Laughs) And anything—probably anything south of Sahara was almost nonexistent. Oh, no kidding. And let’s see—Paradise Road was, no, Tropicana Avenue was—it seemed like it was way out of town, that was Bond Road. Mm-hmm. And— Do you remember the major casinos then? The Sahara Hotel, the El Rancho’s still there, across the street from the Sahara Hotel. What was there, then? (Unintelligible) is now. Oh, on the corner of the Strip and Sahara? Yes. It was (Unintelligible). (Unintelligible)? Got burned down. Oh. And then, they actually tore the remainder of it down. So who owns that property there now, then? Hughes I think. Oh, that (Unintelligible) Corporation, (unintelligible)? UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 6 Yes. Did I already ask you where your father worked when you came here? He went to work with the Golden Nugget (Unintelligible). Oh really? Was that then, back then, did those guys have good benefits, you know like the (Unintelligible) Health, like were they union or anything? No. No. Uh-uh. Mm. Back there like oh, behind the Golden Nugget, like where the Golden Nugget Hotel is now, there was a Safeway Store. Mm-hmm. Where the city (unintelligible) is, was a—(unintelligible) there at Second and Carson, was a, oh, a bowling alley and restaurant. Where the Fremont Hotel was, was the White Cross Drugstore. And then, of course, where the courthouse was—right across the street from the courthouse, where the Golden Nugget parking lot is now is the Palace Theatre. Mm-hmm. Do you know how many high schools they had back then? Just two—just two that I recall. Rancho and Vegas High. And oh, I guess, Gorman probably wasn’t even built yet. Oh. Is that that Catholic one right there? Yes. Gorman probably was built—I don’t know, maybe around ’56, ’57, ’58, around in there. Which one did you go to? I went to Gorman. UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 7 Mm-hmm. What were the teachers like back then when you were going to high school and that? Did kids ever have any run-ins with ‘em? No. Because the teachers were more disciplinarians than they are now. Mm-hmm. And something you didn’t do is sass a teacher back or—and where I imagine the public schools, high schools, also, but at the Catholic High Schools they were real strict. Yes. Disciplinarians now (unintelligible) quite that one now, I understand. Mm-hmm. Did you—did you make a lot of pretty—pretty good friends when you were in high school and that? You know, that you still know today? Oh yes. We still keep in touch. We have our twenty year reunion coming up. Uh-huh. In a couple of months. Oh yes. That’s great. Mm-hmm. Did you—did you like going to school there? Oh yes. School was never a problem for me. Yes. Did you—did you ever want to go to college or anything? No. Not really. I’ve attempted some college level courses and that. You know, since I’ve been out of school. Mm-hmm. But as far as being a full time student or anything I never had a problem. I got married when I was nineteen years old. UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 8 Nineteen? And of course when I got out of the service you know, I had to go to work. Yes. Let’s see—oh, when did you first start working for the police department, then? In 1965. In 1965. And you’ve been with them ever since, right? Yes. Is it—when you get your twenty years in, is that true that you can retire when you get twenty years in? No. We have to have—you need to be fifty years of age before you can retire. Oh, I see. But if you didn’t want to you could work in the office or something, couldn’t you? Like at the station instead of being a patrol cop? Or could you still (unintelligible)? No. It all depends on your assignment. Whatever you put in for and whatever field you want to go into. When you were young, you know, like eighteen or nineteen and that, you know, running around in that, did you ever get in trouble (Laughs) with the police or anything, back then? No. A few traffic tickets, a few traffic accidents, but there again, just like in school. Mm-hmm. When a cop told you to pull over or to do something you did it. Yes. You didn’t stand there— You didn’t have any— And argue with them. (Laughs) yes I can see. When did you decide to become a policeman? UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 9 Oh, probably about ’56 or ’57. Oh really, that early? Yes. Hm. Can—do you remember like—did they have a big metro back then? Not—there wasn’t a Metro Police Department until nine—July of ’73. Oh, I see. The Clark County Sheriff’s Department and the Las Vegas Police Department merged to make Metro. So Metro can go all over Clark County? Yes. Oh, I see. Although, like Henderson, North Las Vegas, Boulder City, have their own police departments. But Metro is—has the outlining substations like Eugene and Laughlin, Mount Charleston, Indian Springs, Blue Diamond. Did they have—was it pretty big back then? I mean did they have a lot of policemen, you know, like in the early sixties and that? Or was it like a lot smaller than it is today? Oh, definitely, the department was smaller than it is now. As I say, there was a separate—there was a city police department that handled inside the city limits. And then, the Clark County Sheriff’s Department handled the county, and was in, I guess, the unincorporated areas. Was Clark County Sheriff bigger than the Metro then? Or the city police (unintelligible)? No. they were always both about the same size. Oh really. How many Metro officers are there on the force, today? Oh, I would say there’s probably five hundred uniformed officers. UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 10 Oh really? Or I should say, commissioned officers. Probably five or six hundred commissioned officers. Mm-hmm. And you’ve been one—you’ve been a police officer for—since 1965, did you go through a lot of training, then? Yes. There’s a regular police academy. And then, there are all these—they always have the service kind through your career on. Did they train ‘em—could they train ‘em better today than they used to, in the earlier, like in the sixties in Las Vegas? The academy’s probably four or five weeks longer. But I wouldn’t say they were trained any better. I mean, probably a lot more in depth. Was—you know, like the crime rate back then, like when you were a teenager and that. Was it pretty high? I mean did they have a high homicide rate? Population wise, it was probably about the same as it is now. Oh. Not numerically, but considering how many people were here. Yes. I see. Like you mean per capita? Yes. Like, I don’t know if you could remember but like, what kind of problems did you know, like when you first started working, what kind of problems did the policemen run into? You know, what kind of—what were some of your problems? Like with the people you had to deal with and that, when you first started? Well, you always had your drunks and the drunk drivers and family beats. The probably the— Biggest problem? UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 11 Biggest problem of the ordinary, keep—the street cop comes into contact with that. When you first started was there a lot of organized crime in Las Vegas? I guess that’s a debatable subject, but sure, I’d imagine. So I wasn’t involved in that aspect of it. But I imagine it was. Are the Metro officers today involved in it a lot more than they used to be? I mean do they have a special, say a special— As a special detail, yes. Yes. They do? Were the policemen keeping like more ahead of crime back then than they are today? You know, like say, in the early sixties and late sixties? No ‘cause it, it just doesn’t seem like you ever have enough men to go around. Oh yes. There’s always a shortage of men. In the—when you first started was there anybody ever—any police officer ever killed in Las Vegas? Hm. In 1965 there was a City of Las Vegas policeman killed. I believe it was in ’65. Hagel Forty was killed. Was he—was it during a robbery or something? No. During a vehicle stop. Really? What’d the guy do just get on—was he wanted or something? I don’t recall the exact (unintelligible). He’d have to have had run-ins with the department before. Mm-hmm. He shot the officer. UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 12 How’d it happen? He just—when the officer walked up to him, he just shot him—through his window or something? I don’t really recall. I believe he shot the officer with the officer’s gun. Are you kidding me? I think they had—you know, they struggled, you know. Geez. Did they catch the guy? Yes. Uh-huh. Do you know—? He’s still in prison. In Nevada? Mm-hmm. At Jean? No, in Carson City. I thought they give—I thought that was mandatory all over the United States that they gave him a death sentence for killing a police officer while on duty? No, no. So what did he get, life? Yes. Well, he ever have a chance to be paroled? Oh yes. He came up I think this year. He came up for parole and was denied. Do you think they’ll ever give it to him? The way the courts are and the parole system is, no doubt. UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 13 Shoot. Back then, did you feel, I don’t know, you hear a lot of policemen say, like you know, “Yes, we get ‘em off the streets and the judge just put ‘em right back on.” Did you feel that way when you first started working for the police force? No. Not when you first start working. But the longer you’re there, the more your eyes open to what the judicial system is really like. Mm-hmm. Were you satisfied with it, then? You know, when you first started working for it. Like say you are now? I mean, do you have different views on it than you had when you first started working? Yes. Probably not as exciting as when you’re—when you first get into it, like any job you’re more excited when you first get into it than— Yes. As the time goes on. You know, when you first came to Las Vegas, or say when you were older, like in your early twenties, were there more Hispanic people living in Vegas then, than there are today? No. Or is it—? No. There’s probably very few now. In the last four or five years there’s been a great influx of Latins, Spanish. Is that—do you have a lot of run-ins with them? I mean, not just ‘cause they’re minorities plus, but you know they tend to like have, you know, before that they tend to get involved in crime more. Do you have a lot of run-ins with them? No. I really haven’t had any contact with them, any more than I had with anybody else, you know. UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 14 Mm-hmm. Do you get a lot of (unintelligible) today more than you did when you first started at the Metro Department? Definitely. I mean from people, you know? Definitely. Do a lot of officers get tired of putting up with it? Oh yes. (Unintelligible) just something they have to put up with because of the way that the court system is. Mm-hmm. You know, when you hear, I don’t know, it seems like everybody’s always talking about writing in the paper, you know, from both sides (unintelligible). So people are always saying the police are using excessive force and all. Do you think—what’s your opinion on that? I mean when all—people are always saying excessive force and stuff like that, or they arrested the wrong person. As far as excessive force goes, I’ve been on the department over sixteen years and I’ve used my club once. Mm-hmm. The nightstick. And that was just to trip a person. Mm-hmm. I never hit anybody with it. I’ve never had to draw it on anybody. It was during a fight and I just—tripped him with it, in over sixteen years. It’s (unintelligible) I can’t ever remember even—I’ve never hit anybody with it. Mm-hmm. So you—? UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 15 Not to say that others haven’t or that it, you know couldn’t be of use. Yes. And now that one police officer that was killed, that’s the only one that’s been killed since you’ve been working there? No. A good friend of mine was killed three years ago last month. Again on a routine traffic stop. And he was a good friend of yours? Yes. Geez. What—? He was a motorcycle cop, just on a routine, routine traffic stop down at Paradise Road. Oh. And the man that killed him that had made statements that the next cop could’ve stopped him. He blew him away. And then, he was wanted out of Alaska. On the—on something like three hundred thousand, two hundred thousand dollar postal bond. Mm-hmm. Where he had stolen, allegedly stolen some money out of the mails and Jim stopped him and he went back to the car, just, (unintelligible) of getting some papers or something. Uh-huh. And he came out with a gun and emptied it in Jim. Did they—they caught him, did they not? Yes. Is he in prison now? No. He was killed. Oh. He was killed? Yes. UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 16 Before he got to prison? Yes. How did he—how’d that happen? Well, when he ran and then they found him held up in the— Oh. They had a shootout? Yes. I see. Do (unintelligible) that one guy you were talking about that died, did a lot of—I imagine he had some pretty good buddies in the force, did a lot of them, you know when they go out on duty again, do they always try and avenge his death, anymore? You know, do they tend to be more careful, say? Oh yes. They’re definitely more careful. And then, if you don’t discipline yourself you become lax again. You’re always got to be disciplining yourself to stay on the alert. Mm-hmm. Do you always think about that when you’re whenever you pull somebody over? Not continually, no. (Laughs) Has—has anybody ever, when you first started working there in ’65, did anybody ever pull a gun on you, like in the sixties and that? No. I’ve never had anybody pull a gun on me. When did they start using motorcycles? Well, the city police departments had motorcycles as long as I can remember. Mm-hmm. You know since they were—they had ‘em in ’53. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 17 And the sheriff’s department started using them in about probably ’63 or ’64. Then when did you say again, they merged the police— In July of ’73. Before that was there a lot of problems (Laughs) you know, between the two? Oh yes. There’s always your—not problems, just little personality conflicts, I’ll put it that way. Yes. Has it been a lot better since they merged? Well, there are again, you have differences of opinions. Mm-hmm. It’s been old hard line, with one of the people that was employed by the city and one that’s employed by the county. But all in all, I think everybody’s very happy, the way it is. You mean, are they all employed by the same—like by the city now? Well, it’s the Metropolitan Police Department. Actually, there’s a police commission with the county commissioners and the city commissioners. Mm-hmm. Would you—? Sitting on the board. I’m sorry. Would you care if I asked you like, how much you were making then, you know when you first started? I think I started at probably a hundred and three dollars a month. Oh really? Have your benefits—I bet your benefits have gotten a lot better, haven’t they, since you know, like today? No. Not really. Fact is we’ve had somethings have been taken away, and that one time when the motorcycle officers received two steps, what was called at that time hazardous duty pay or incentive pay. UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 18 Mm-hmm. Now they’re only getting one (unintelligible) Mm-hmm. Back then we didn’t have maternity insurance. What kind of insurance? Maternity for pregnancies. Oh yes. For like families. I see. Back then, you didn’t? No. Gee. And they have it now. Mm-hmm. We pay about fifty percent of our own dental and healthcare plans. When you first started working there, is that what you started out on, was a bike? No. There’s always a waiting list to get on the bikes. Why, do you people—cops rather, you’d rather ride a bike than drive (unintelligible)? Well, I’m not saying everybody. Mm. There’s some people that want to be detectives and some people—there’s some people that that’s they’re life ambition is to be a detective and some would rather work a little bit in every detail. And—but there’s always been a waiting list to get on bikes. UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 19 How many detectives did they have when you started working there, you know, roughly say? I couldn’t even tell you. Mm. Would you ever want to go into you know, like being a detective? No. That’s never been my—my calling, so to say. Oh really? Were you—so were you in a car then first, a patrol car before you got on a bike? Yes. I worked in—I worked in the jail for several months. And then, I worked in a car until I was able to get on a bike. Does it take a long time to get on a bike? You know, you just talked about that waiting list. Well, no. ‘Cause there’s some people that you know, transfer in to stay a couple of years and then transfer out. But most, oh, I’d say half of the people that are in there now, probably been in there—well, one man’s been on bikes for over twenty-four years. And they probably average anywhere from ten to twelve years. Mm. Out of the fifty or so men that are on bikes now, they probably average—if they’ve been in there ten years each. Do they turn over a lot? I mean is there a lot of officers quitting all the time? Ah, yes, there’s probably a high turnover rate. Really? As far as the whole department. As far as the department. Do most of them go into—other police, in other towns to be a policeman, or did they just quit all together? UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 20 No. I’d say the majority that quit, quit to go into some other— Profession? Profession and sometimes that doesn’t work out, so they come back. Mm-hmm. How many detectives do they have working now on the force? You know, I honestly can’t tell you ‘cause I’m not connected with that aspect of it. Mm-hmm. Do you ever—when you first started working there did you ever have any run-ins with them? No. You know like— Uh-huh. You know, any conflicts or anything? Most of the men get along pretty well with each other. Mm-hmm. Let’s see, do you—when you patrol, do you stay in one section of town all the time, like your same beat or whatever? Well, the patrol men are assigned to certain areas. Mm-hmm. Are you—are any of them ever assigned to their neighborhoods? Oh yes. I mean, sure. What happens when it rains? Do you guys just go into cars, then? Yes. What were the—when you—in the sixties what was it like, you know? What was like a normal (Laughs) day? You know, I don’t know, just, I just wanted to know kind of like what you do as a normal day in the sixties, you know, when you were a policeman? Lot of burglaries, lot of family beefs, grand larson, petty larson, purse theft, robberies. UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 21 Was it—? I guess. It was nearly as exciting as (unintelligible) or chips or any of that kind of stuff. (Laughs) Yes. I bet. What about—you know in the sixties when they had all them guys and everybody thought they were so cool, you know, and all the hippie movement started, you know, with the young people and that. And I guess drugs really picked up, then. Was it pretty hard back then, I mean, you know, did you have a lot of run-ins with drugs and that? No. ‘Cause back then it was mostly marijuana. Mm-hmm. You think they’re using harder drugs today then? Oh yes. Definitely. Back then in the sixties, say when you first started working there, were there a lot of high school kids smoking dope, say more that they are today, or are they—or are more of them smoking today then before? Oh, per capita, it probably remains about the same. Really? Back then it seemed like a lot because that’s probably about all there was. Mm-hmm. But I think it’s more plentiful now. So when you got—when the seventies arrived then, what was it like, then? Let me first ask you about like—say, okay, we talked pretty much about the fifties and sixties and seventies, what was—like see the very early seventies, the beginnings, what was the Strip like then? Was that—when did that El Rancho or whatever burn down? Hm. I can’t even remember. Prior to 1970. UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 22 (Tape one ends) Okay. We were talking about in the seventies what the Strip was like. Was that El Rancho was still there? I think it burned down, just before—right around the seventies or in that area. What other motels did they have then? ‘Course the Silverbird was the Thunderbird. And where the Stardust Auditorium is was—no, it was another, actually another complete different hotel, like the Royal Crown. I can’t even think of the name of it. Where the Silver Slipper is they had an old, Silver Slipper, they originally had an old like an old frontier town there. Oh really? With all these old buildings and shops and. You mean like a tourist place? Yes. It was, yes. Similar to what—old Vegas, or old Nevada is now. The Tropicana when did—was that still in the same place before they rebuilt it? Yes. The Tropicana, I can’t remember what year that was built. Was the Downtown area pretty much still the same? No. ‘Cause where the Union Plaza is now was the Union Pacific Railroad. Mm-hmm. And that’s where like all the kids cruise Fremont Street now. And when I was a kid of course, kids cruised Fremont Street. And that was the circle there that when I entered the railroad station and you used to make that circle and came back down Fremont Street. You guys did that then? Oh yes. UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 23 (Laughs) Down through the ah— What kind of car did you have? Down to the Blue Onion. It’s down around, what, Eastern and Fremont. So the Strip wasn’t even hardly there then? Oh yes, the Strip was definitely there. But kids still cruised Fremont Street. What kind of car did you have then? 57 Chevy. Mm. Seemed like everybody had one of those. Yes. What about the Caesar’s Palace was the same way it was in the early seventies? Oh yes. They’ve added on—they’ve added on to it a lot. Over where the MGM was they built the Bonanza Hotel. Mm-hmm. And then the M—I guess the MGM acquired that property. And across from the MGM where the (Unintelligible) Post just opened within the last year or so, that was just a motel. Did a lot of those—was there any—was there much talk in the press about underworld figures in the seventies (unintelligible) you know, trying to get in on the— Oh yes. The motels? I think there’s always. Who were some of the—who were some of the underworld figures and mafia guys back in the seventies that you ever heard of, here about in Las Vegas? UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 24 No. Not right off hand. Who were the—was the Gaming Control Board pretty strong then? I mean, were they pretty—you know, did they make everybody get here (unintelligible) to the rules, like they do today? I—I really don’t—I can’t answer that ‘cause I’m not—that’s a complete different entity, I don’t— Mm-hmm. Has—like in the early seventies, was Las Vegas really starting to grow, then? Yes. That’s probably when it really took off. Oh really? Did they start hiring a lot of police officers here? I mean. No. ‘Cause like I said, we still don’t have enough. (Laughs) No? Ah. Why doesn’t—? Go ahead. We just could never seem to keep up with the population. Mm-hmm. Are they still—would they still hire now? Are they still hiring now? No. That’s— (Unintelligible)? There’s a freeze on right now of hiring. You know, they never had one out and said, let’s, you know, we’re ‘gonna hire a hundred policemen. Mm-hmm. I see. When you first started working—like say, in the seventies and that, were any of the police officers involved in any controversial arrests? You know of that? Oh, I think there’s always ‘gonna be one or two. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 25 As far as recalling any, I don’t recall any. There’s always ‘gonna be controversy. When you first—when you first started there and you were married already, right? Yes. Would—what’d you and your buddies do, you know, like on the weekends, or on your days off? Mostly, movies or go out to the lake or Mount Charleston. Mm. When did they get the ski area for Mount Charleston? As far as I can recall, I couldn’t even tell you. But it’s been as long as I can remember. Oh really. You’d go down—did you used to go down to Lake Mead a lot? When I was in high school, I used to go out there and scuba dive a lot. But I haven’t been out there now. We maybe go out there, once a year or twice a year. What’d you scuba dive for? Or just for the sport of it? Just for the experience, yes. A lot of your—do you still have a lot of guys that you first started working with? Are they still on the police force? Oh, probably fifty percent. Mm-hmm. Is it—do you think it’s a lot harder for you to be a police man, then it was when you first started? As far as restrictions and frustration and court cases, yes. Do you go to court a lot more today than you used to? No. Not really. Do you think crime—is crime pretty high in the last, just in the last two or three years? Yes. And the more the population grows, the more crime will increase. UNLV University Libraries John L. Houck 26 Did you—when you—as you first started out, did you come on a lot of homicides? I mean, you know, make a, you know, a routine call to somebody’s house, and you know, someone had been killed? No. I probably only been on three of four homicides in my career. Mm-hmm. As far as being one of the first units to arrive. Mm-hmm. Do you ride with a partner? No. Not usually. Did you used to? No, uh-huh. What happens if they got some dude out there that’s you know, (unintelligible) a police department, you know, he’s ready to take one of the cops out. Do they ever put cops together? You know like—you know, just for the safety of them? Oh yes. In the high crime areas and on swing shift, usually, as far as patrol cars, and that, the guys all ride together. What were some of the high crime areas when you first started working for Metro? The Strip is—has always been high crime, as far as burglaries and larcenies. You mean, not because of the homes, but because of people’s cars and that, you mean, getting ripped into? Well, the hotels, the rooms, and everything. Really? They get—they got pretty high crime rate in the room