Interview with Luciano Acevedo Lopez, July 8, 2004

Nevada Test Site Oral History Project University of Nevada, Las Vegas Interview with Luciano Lopez July 8, 2004 Las Vegas, Nevada Interview Conducted By Suzanne Becker © 2007 by UNLV Libraries Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews conducted by an interviewer/ researcher with an interviewee/ narrator who possesses firsthand knowledge of historically significant events. The goal is to create an archive which adds relevant material to the existing historical record. Oral history recordings and transcripts are primary source material and do not represent the final, verified, or complete narrative of the events under discussion. Rather, oral history is a spoken remembrance or dialogue, reflecting the interviewee’s memories, points of view and personal opinions about events in response to the interviewer’s specific questions. Oral history interviews document each interviewee’s personal engagement with the history in question. They are unique records, reflecting the particular meaning the interviewee draws from her/ his individual life experience. Produced by: The Nevada Test Site Oral History Project Departments of History and Sociology University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 89154- 5020 Director and Editor Mary Palevsky Principal Investigators Robert Futrell, Dept. of Sociology Andrew Kirk, Dept. of History The material in the Nevada Test Site Oral History Project archive is based upon work supported by the U. S. Dept. of Energy under award number DEFG52- 03NV99203 and the U. S. Dept. of Education under award number P116Z040093. Any opinions, findings, and conclusions or recommendations expressed in these recordings and transcripts are those of project participants— oral history interviewees and/ or oral history interviewers— and do not necessarily reflect the views of the U. S. Department of Energy or the U. S. Department of Education. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 1 Interview with Luciano Lopez ( With Frances Lopez) July 8, 2004 Conducted by Suzanne Becker Table of Contents Introduction: birth ( Harshaw, AZ), education, military service, marriage ( 1948), mining career in AZ and NM ( 1948- 1982), work at NTS ( ca. 1982- 1991). 1 Move to Las Vegas, NV and work for REECo at the NTS ( Area 12 and Yucca Mountain). 3 Working conditions and camaraderie at the NTS, comparison of safety conditions at NTS with earlier mining career. 6 Thoughts on drilling holes for nuclear weapons. 9 Security on the job at NTS. 10 Experience with underground tests. 11 Accidents, and screening for silicosis. 12 Memories of protesters at the NTS. 13 Stories: mine rescue team, taking radiation readings, driving the man train. 15 A typical day at the NTS: taking visitors into the tunnels. 17 Stories: people he knew at the NTS from previous jobs ( Bud Edwards, Rocky Hardcastle). 18 Driving the man train at the NTS. 21 Digging holes and shafts. 22 Safety concerns re: radiation exposure, and son Rudy Lopez’s work at the NTS. 23 Reflection on REECo as an employer, and union employment. 26 Retirement from REECo. 30 Conclusion: security and working hours at the NTS. 31 UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 1 Interview with Luciano Lopez ( With Frances Lopez) July 8, 2004 in Las Vegas, NV Conducted by Suzanne Becker [ 00: 00: 00] Begin Track 2, Disk 1. Suzanne Becker: So I first thank you again for taking the time. Just wondering if we could start at the beginning, just with some general background information, where you’re from, where were you born, where did you grow up? Luciano Lopez: I was born in Arizona; Harshaw, Arizona. And I went to school there, and then I went in the military. When I come back in 1947, I married my wife Frances in ’ 48. Then I started my mining career there in Harshaw. The name of the mine was the Trench Mine. Then from there, I went to Superior, Arizona, where I mined there for about five years. And from there I went to Glen Canyon Dam. I sunk the spillways there. And from there I went back to New Mexico, and I mined there for twenty- eight years. Frances Lopez: From ’ 59 to ’ 82. Luciano: From ’ 59 to ’ 82, yes. What were you mining there? Luciano: Uranium. I’m mining uranium, yeah. And then from there I came to the test site. I worked at the test site almost nine years, where I performed different duties, like running the man train. 6: 30. Running smelting machines. And drilling and blasting. And then I went in the man train. That’s when I took the men in and out of the tunnel. OK. So it’s really called the man train. The man train, yes. And I also took in the device, you know, to ground zero. Wow. So first of all, what did you do in the military? UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 2 I was in the infantry. Yes, I was in the infantry, and then with the combat engineers. OK. And were you part of any of the wars? Well, I was in the Philippines, you know. I just took care of prisoners of war. Wow. And then how did you end up in mining after you got back? Because it was the only job that paid more. Mining then was one of the best jobs you could find as far as steady work, you know, mining was. When I started at that Trench Mine, we were mining lead, zinc, and copper. And then from there I went out to Superior, Arizona. We were mining copper there, too. And then I went to New Mexico and I was mining uranium there for about twenty years now. Frances: From Superior, you went to Glen Canyon. Luciano: Glen Canyon. Glen Canyon is in Arizona? Frances: It’s in Arizona. It’s in Page. Luciano: Page. Frances: It’s between Page and Utah site. Luciano: Yes. The canyon divides Arizona and Utah. OK. So you probably drive, on the way out to Nevada, depending on which direction you’re coming from. Luciano: Yes. Well, we couldn’t drive it because there was no bridge, so we walked a footbridge across the canyon. And we went and got our groceries in Page, and we had to take a grocery cart across, then bring one back, you know. [ 00: 05: 00] On foot. Yes, on foot. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 3 Frances: And then when we had to buy the big amount of groceries, we had to go to Kanab, Utah. That’s quite a drive. Frances: It was about, I would say, like about fifty- some miles? Luciano: Something like that, yeah. And then we left there and went to the test site, where I was transferred to Yucca Mountain, where I did a lot of boltingdrilling and loading dynamite. And so you were helping to build the tunnels. Yes, the tunnel. Yes, we started that tunnel. And we drove the tunnel in for about maybe three hundred feet, and then they brought the machine that started drilling. When you see that tunnel now, you can see where it starts perfect round, you know, and that’s how far we took that, drove that tunnel in. So now, did you just come out to Las Vegas from New Mexico? Yes. There was some friends of mine who were working here. At the test site? Yes. And I came from New Mexico to the union hall here in Las Vegas, and they told me they couldn’t accept me on the list because there were too many. So then I talked to a friend of mine, and he was a steward, and he says, I’ll get you a card, he said, and he did. And I was on the list for about two months when I was hired. And you were hired out at the test site. Yes. Did you know anything about the test site before you came out here, or had you heard about it, or—? I heard about it, yeah, I heard a lot about it. I wanted to come here early. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 4 Frances: In the sixties. Luciano: In the sixties, but she didn’t want to because my kids were too young. Teenagers. Frances: The boys were teenagers, just teenagers. We had four. Four boys? Wow. Luciano: Yes. And then they told me that you had to stay over there, you know. At the site? At the test site. So I didn’t much like that, you know. But from then, when they started hauling us with buses, then— So you didn’t have to stay out at the test site by the time you got out here. You were bused in. No, I went back and forth, yeah. I went back and forth. And this is through REECo [ Reynolds Electrical and Engineering Company]. Yes. And then I went to work for REECo, Area 12, and I stayed there until they transferred me to Yucca Mountain. OK. So you were out there at a time when there was a lot going on, as far as they were doing a lot of tests. Yes. Oh, yes. Lot of tunnels and lot of tests, you know. So were you actually drilling, helping to drill, or clear out some of those tunnels as well? Oh, yeah. I did, you know, drive tunnel for a lot of data; tests get away from them, and we had to start a new tunnel. Which one was that? Misty Rain, I believe. So you probably worked on a lot of tests. Oh, yeah, a lot. I worked on a lot of tests. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 5 How many, do you think? I had all of my papers. I don’t know what I did— maybe seven or eight tests, you know. Different kind of— yeah. So I’m just curious about the process [ drilling]— because those holes are huge and some of them go down, what, 700 feet or so? Yes, well, I didn’t work in the shaft. I just worked in the tunnels. My son is the one that worked in the shafts. Oh, really? Does he live out here? Yes. He’s retired out of the test site. Frances: He worked longer than Dad did. Yes. I would love to talk to him at some point, too, if he’d want to talk about it. So what was that like? I mean, how does that process work? Luciano: [ 00: 10: 00] Well, everything was done very careful. Safety was a priority there. It was. Yes. Yes, I bet. And that’s about it, you know. Were you ever— well, you weren’t really in the shafts, but I imagine it gets really hot in the tunnels. Yes. Well, in the tunnel it wasn’t bad, but at Yucca Mountain where I was on the grouting machine, we stayed outside all day in the sun. That would be hot. Yes. But I liked that job, running the grout machine, you know. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 6 So what was it like working out at the test site? It seems like there’s a lot of camaraderie. It seems like one big family. It’s pretty close knit. Right. Yes. Correct. And I made a lot of friends there. Go to work as good miners. Yes. I guess there’s a lot of people that have worked out there for a long time. Yes. And we all got along so well, blacks, Hispanics, white, you know. Yes. So it was fairly diverse and there was not a lot of—? Yes. All the supervisors that I had, they were cooperative, very good persons, you know. How does this experience of mining differ from some of the other jobs you did, if it does at all? Was it that different? Oh, it did, yes, very different because when I worked in the mines, I drove a tractor where the trains ran and hauled the ore. We did a lot of development, and then mining the ore, the uranium. And the test site wasn’t. It was just driving tunnels and putting the pipe for the device in there. Or a cavity. We had cavity tests. And one we had that I worked at the weekend, and it was a device that they set off like 700 feet underground. And then you could see it, when it went off, it felt like an earthquake. Yes, what was— because you must’ve been out there when they shot those off. Yes. We were looking at the ground zero, and when it went off, you could see the trembling, and you could see that dirt moving. And then about, oh, ten, fifteen minutes later, you could see it cave in. And a big hole would settle. Did you ever have a tunnel cave in? No. No, not here at the test site. I did when I was mining in New Mexico. We got buried, me and two of my partners. They were very young. And when we got buried, well, just the exit was cut off. And I rode a wave of mud like maybe twenty, thirty feet. I’m just lucky I didn’t— I rode it. It UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 7 just pushed me and I fell on top of it and rode me down the track. Then I had to talk to the guys because they were very young and they were getting hysterical. And I put them inside of a car and told them to turn the lights on. We were just going to keep one light on. [ 00: 15: 00] And I put them inside of a car and I covered the car and told them not to move. You know, the oxygen, get it going. And obviously you guys got out. Yes. Oh, yeah. They were going to start digging us out with mucking machines, you know, but it would’ve taken too long, so they decided to crawl in there and just, with buckets, drag enough dirt to go in there. And it was a long ways. God, it was like maybe 150 feet. But they went in there, and once they broke through, this guy that went in there, he brought a rope with him. And one of my helpers didn’t want— he was afraid because it was just, you know, high enough for you so you could— Frances: Squeeze in there. Luciano: Not even crawl. He had to pull him. Oh, wow. So did you ever get claustrophobic? No. That’s good. Oh, so he was afraid to— what we had to do, we took him down and tied both feet with a rope and put in there and they pulled him out. That’s very intense. So probably the work you were doing at the test site sounds like it was safer. Yes. Oh, yes. Oh, yeah, a lot safer, because in New Mexico we had a lot of shale, and it would cave in a lot. I got hit by slabs many times. And I’m just lucky to be alive because I felt in a shaft over there. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 8 In New Mexico? I fell ninety feet. Wow! How did that happen? Well, we were drilling a main divider in the shaft, and the mine inspector had told us, no more excavation until we changed that divider that was bent. So I took this guy with me. His name was McNally. He was big, but very young. Young man. And I got everything ready so when we blasted, the guys went to eat lunch and we went down to change that divider. And we took the bolts off and everything, and had everything we needed, and I told him, Start pushing your side and then about maybe a quarter of an inch, and then I’ll push mine to keep it going straight, because it wouldn’t bind. And he kept hitting it and hitting it. I had my safety belt on and so did he. And after he couldn’t do nothing with it, I said, Come over here and I’ll go over there. So he walked across on that divider. Then we had, they call it button board. It’s a legging that fits on the divider, and it’s too long; it hits the side of the shaft, and you can walk on there, you know. It was twelve- inch boards. And I went over there, and I didn’t put his safety belt on, and I hit it a long time. I hit it, and it came off. So I stayed there, you know, trying to get my belt and I said— Ninety feet! That is— Then I went. And my teeth didn’t break. They just bent like that and pinned my tongue. And I couldn’t close my eyes for my mouth, because it was full of sand. If there would’ve been rock there, I would’ve gotten killed, but it was nothing but sand. No rocks whatsoever. Then I hit like three feet of water and then the sand, you know. I went in the sand. And lucky that this grease monkey was working on our mucker, and he seen me, and he jumped down, and he couldn’t pull me out because I was stuck in the sand. And he put a cable on my feet and pulled me up with that tugger. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 9 Wow! So that must be a lot for the family to go through. Frances: Right. Yes, so I bet getting to the test site was sort of a relief? Luciano: [ 00: 20: 00] Oh, yes, it was, because it was big— big tunnels. And that tunnel, mines over there, they were nine feet high by eight foot wide. And the tunnels here, you know, gosh, they were like forty feet. That’s huge. So I guess I’ve got a couple of questions. The first is, when you were drilling the holes or making the holes or even driving the train, did you ever think about, that you’re drilling these holes for nuclear weapons? No. Because I mean they’re huge [ the tunnels]. Yes. And it was just a small silver device, you know. Yes. The device itself is small, but the shaft that they— No, we went in the tunnel and we got it to ground zero and then the scientists took care of all of that. You just dropped it off. Yes. We didn’t touch it. There was always soldiers in the front, soldiers in the back, and soldiers on the side when we took a device in. And all the switches were bolted together to make sure that you couldn’t— somebody would throw the switches, you’d go someplace else. They were bolted. It was very interesting. Yes? How so? Because the way they worked, you know. It’s so much different working for the government than mining over there, you know. They had rules and regulations that you have to follow. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 10 Was that better or worse? Better. Oh, yes. It was more regulated? Yes. Was there ever stuff that you guys did that you couldn’t talk about? No. Well, we had interviews with government people, and they would ask us a bunch of questions, you know, and when they asked me where does— not safety, but where does [ pause] you know, being careful not to say nothing, he asked me, he said, where does [ pause] you know, what he meant is where did keeping your mouth shut, you know, start? But he said, Where does, you know, like security, where does it start? and all that. I told him, It starts with me. And he said, Well, I’m glad that you said that. Was this before the job or during the job? Well, we had this interview when we started. And they wanted to make sure that, you know, we didn’t go talking about our work or nothing like that. Yes. Right. Because you guys probably saw a lot. Yes, but the things that we’re not supposed to talk about, I never mentioned them. Yes. I mean, is that strange, going to work and coming home and not being able to talk about some of it? Well, yes, there was a lot of things that we weren’t supposed to be talking to, you know, because they said that they’ll come and ask you one question and you answer it, you tell them, you UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 11 answer the question, and then he says they’ll go to somebody else and ask them another thing, and then they put it all together, you know. Right. To get information out of different people? Yes. Getting information. [ 00: 25: 00] So you just weren’t supposed to talk about anything, period. Wow. So [ pause] I’m just curious, too, because you were out there when they shot off some of the tests. And you said it felt like an earthquake. Yes, but that was only one time that they did it in the shaft, 700 feet underground. That was the only time that I experienced anything like that because when they had other tests, they evacuated the area. Really? How come they didn’t evacuate for that one? Because that was so deep? Oh, yeah, because that was in the shaft. And I just happened to work that weekend, you know, and we seen it. We seen that test. And you could feel the vibration, exactly like an earthquake. Was that scary at all or was it just too far? No, it was too far. Yes. I think if you saw the above ground testing I would think that would be scary. Well, it was underground. It was underground, but it caved in 700 feet. Made a big crater? Yes. Big, big crater, yeah. Were there ever any accidents while you were out there? Any mining accidents? You mentioned that it— Well, the only accidents that I had were out of the test site. Yes. It sounds like their safety procedures were in place. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 12 Yes. It was different, yeah, at the test site. I only know of one getting killed. It was a friend of mine. They were cutting a pipe, but the pipe was like ten feet in diameter, and it was thick. That’s where they have the tests, you know. And then they cut it all [ and] take it on out. And they had this one piece tied to a bolt on the ribs. When they finished cutting it, the bolt didn’t hold nothing and thing went and hit him against the rig. It killed him instantly. And they threatened to shut the test site down because of that accident. Like I say, the safety was higher, you know. Safety was a main concern. So they didn’t end up shutting the test site down, though, right? No. No. They were able to get around that. Yes. So you mentioned that you went for a screening for silicosis. Yes. And I haven’t gotten the results. I went over here where I had the screening, the test, but they said that they sent them to Yucca Mountain, you know. So I’m going to have to call there [ and] see, because it’s so important to me, because I want to find out if I have anything, you know, bad lungs or anything like that. Because uranium miners, you know, where I worked over there, they worked a lot less than I did and they got the $ 150,000. And I’m working on that now. So I need the results from Yucca Mountain. Now, is that through the Radiation Exposure Compensation Act ( RECA)? Yes. OK. And when we were at the REECo breakfast a couple weeks ago, those folks were out there from NIOSH [ National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health] talking about the different UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 13 types of illnesses and the different compensation programs. Are you involved in any of that? [ See also Energy Employees Occupational Illness Compensation Program] [ 00: 30: 00] Well, that’s what this is for. So it’s the same thing. OK. And is this the first time that you’ve done that? Yes, and well, I got— no, that was— Frances: You started in ’ 98. That had one in 2002, and now in 2004, was his third one. Luciano: On one report that I got, they sent me a letter and they said that I had scarred lungs and that I might be eligible for compensation. But see, everything, like my hearing, you know, they were paying people here because of loss of hearing, but I couldn’t do nothing because they said that I couldn’t hear when I came here. Prior, already, before the test site. Yes. Is that true? Yes. Because, well, when I worked at Glen Canyon, the tunnel, we didn’t have no ear protection like we have now, you know, and can you imagine thirty- five machines going at the same time? No. That’s loud. So I don’t know if you were out there during this time. I think you were. Other people have talked about taking the bus and going down the road and at times there were protesters lined up on the roads? Oh, yeah, a lot of them. They had a lot of protesters there, and they would lay on the road and the cops had to come and drag them out. They built a fence, a chain link wire, and they threw them in there. Right, the different pens to keep them in. What do you think—? UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 14 And they were all hippies, you know, and women that didn’t care. One time we went, there was a woman up there on like a bus and she was naked and screaming from up there. They had people like that, you know. Wow! Yes. So, I guess their whole point for being out there is that they’re against the nuclear testing. Yes, right. So we just ignored them, you know, and they just stayed in the bus and we’ll get through them. And the patrols would move them. One time they were holding hands so the buses couldn’t cross, and they made a chain, you know, a human chain. And then about six highway patrolmen, they were big, and they all got together and pushed the line. You should’ve seen them all fall. They just pushed them all out of the way. Yes. And they wouldn’t let go of their hands. What did you guys think about that? You just paid no attention to it? No, no, we didn’t pay no attention to them. We were just careful they wouldn’t throw rocks at us, you know. Interesting. I guess getting back, I’m just curious to what it was like on the test site, especially with the miners as a group? What kinds of experiences you guys had, what kinds of things you did. Because it seems like everybody I talk to, everybody’s got some good stories, and it seems [ a] very tight knit community. Yes, now that we have those breakfasts, you know, we get to talk about old times there at the test site. [ 00: 35: 00] Yes. You kind of compare stories? Yes. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 15 Any good stories you want to share? Oh, well, the guys that I sit next to, oh, they have stories. [ Pause] So I think that covers everything. OK. All right. Is there anything else you want to say about the work that you did or the job, or your experiences at the test site? No, you know. Routine, you know. Well, routine to you, but I mean, that’s a pretty big deal, driving the tunnels and then the train, and actually taking the device to ground zero. Yes, well, one time, his name was Mike, I forget his last name. Mike and his partner, they were drilling into a cavity that was supposed to be cool, but it wasn’t. When they punched through, fire came out of there and burned them both. Not too bad, you know, but burned them. And we had to go in and get them. But we had run the man train, you know, and we went in and got them. Oh, I’ll never forget about the mine rescue team. They set up outside. And we went in and I said, Well, what are they doing out there? They’re supposed to be the rescue team. He said, Oh, if anything happens to you, they’ll come and get you. So they’re the backup rescue team. Yes, but there was one in the front car with me, taking readings from the gases, you know, radiation. Yes, his name is Mike Gamboa. Did you guys take a lot of readings while you were out there? Oh, yeah. Yes. Always. And what were you looking for in the readings? UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 16 You know, when I worked for REECo that time and when they were like having a test, you know, or something like that, we got paid for the whole eight- and- a- half hours because we worked through lunch. We never had a lunch hour, me and my operator. So yeah, anything that would happen, we’d go in, [ and] bring them out. Take them in, bring them out. How did you end up driving the train? Was that just part of one of the jobs that you did? Well, yes, once they had tunnels where it was worth it, it was outdated, you know, all the wiring and everything, it was outdated. So they closed it down, and I went to Yucca Mountain. No, I went to P Tunnel, and then from P Tunnel I went to Yucca Mountain. And at P Tunnel, my job first thing in the morning was to— a truck brought the water and I put the water in flat cars. I took them in and delivered the water to the work areas. Was this at Yucca Mountain or—? No. At the test site. Yes, P Tunnel, yeah. It sounds like a pretty systematic— like there’s a pretty good system going. Yes, it’s interesting because you’re not doing the same thing all day. You’re doing different things. That’s good. [ 00: 40: 00] Then I had papers that went into the office. I brought the time cards to the office. You know, we were busy all— So you did a lot of different things in addition to the mining. Yes. Yes, different things. So what was a typical day like? UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 17 Well, a typical day was when we had people coming in for visitors, and we took the visitors in, and took them in safely, brought them out safely. Were these visitors just from the public or were they from—? Yes, from the public. OK. That had business there or just—? No, they were just visiting. Just visiting. OK. On tours. There was this one black sergeant, he was the one that would tell them about how everything went there, you know, the blasts, how they controlled it, and all that. Yes, that was a good day because we’d take them in and we couldn’t go nowhere with them. We had to be there. So you would just take them in and then the sergeant would take them from there. Yes, he would take them right then. One time, this old man, I think he ate too much at the mess hall, and he got sick over there underground. So we rushed him to the Porta- Potty, and then we brought the crew out, and they were taking in new Porta- Potties, you know, underground, and he went and got in the one that they were going to take underground. He went and set there. Then a forklift went and got it, lifted the flatcar with the Porta- Potty, and he was in there, and he was screaming. And old Ray, he said, Who in the hell is in there? And he was kicking the door, you know. I’ll bet he was surprised. Yes, so it ended up, they put the car down and he came out, pulling his pants, and they said, You’re not supposed to use that. That’s clean. There’s no water in it yet or nothing. You know, they put chemicals in those Porta- Potties. And he said, I’ll never come over here again. And he blamed the food at the mess hall. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 18 That’s great. He’s just lucky he didn’t end up underground. I never thought about that. I guess you have to bring Porta- Potties underground. Well, no, they have— the Porta- Potties that are underground, see, they opened a new working area, we brought new Porta- Potties in there, and then the guys that take care of them put the solutions in there, you know, and then they go in there and they pump them out. So I notice that your name actually said Lucky Lopez. How did you get that name? Oh, I got that name when I was in the military, because my name is Luciano. You probably heard of Lucky Luciano. He was a gangster. I’m not. Later he got deported. I have his book, the story. That’s a good story, actually. So they started calling you Lucky and it stuck? Yes. And then before I went, there was somebody that knew me by this [ name]. When I came here to the test site, there were a bunch of guys from New Mexico here. Frances: And then from Glen Canyon, too. Luciano: Oh, from Glen Canyon. Let me tell you, I hadn’t seen this guy, oh, in over twenty years. Frances: Because you was only— no, you weren’t that, because you was only twenty— you was only— when we lived in Glen Canyon, you was only twenty- three. No, wait. [ 00: 45: 00] When Rudy was born, you was twenty- three, when we were in Superior. Then Rudy was six in 195— when you left in ’ 59, Rudy was not even six yet. And that’s our fourth boy. So you had to be like, OK, that was in ’ 58 and you was twenty- three in ’ 53. Twenty- three, and then you was about twenty- five— Luciano: Anyway, when I came to the test site— Frances: You was fifty- five. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 19 Luciano: — we were processing, you know, and I look over there and there’s an office there and it had Bud Edwards on the door. So I looked at him but he had changed, you know, put on so many years, but I went and asked him, Are you Bud Edwards, the one that worked in Glen Canyon with me? He said, Yes, I am. That’s me. And he was the— what do you call it? The project manager. Oh. Out at the test site. Yes. He was a project manager. And he said, You keep your mouth shut about what we did over there, all that drinking and fighting. At Glen Canyon? Yes. And he didn’t want me to say nothing about it. And then I got up there to the office and I meet another one. My superintendent, I met him over there. See, Bud Edwards was just a miner like me, and over here he’s project manager. So that was quite a long time ago that you worked with him. Frances: He couldn’t believe it. Luciano: Right. I couldn’t believe it. And then from a miner to a project manager. Yes. How did that happen? Yes. And then my superintendent was in there, too, and we start talking about back there in Glen Canyon, and he said, he asked me, What size shoes do you wear? I said, I wear a nine, nine- and- a- half. He says, Oh, I have a brand new pair of Redwings. I’ll sell them to you. I said, OK, how much you want for them? He said, A nickel. So next morning, he’s in the office and he said, There’s your shoes. UNLV Nevada Test Site Oral History Project 20 I said, Oh, great, brand new. So I went to get it and he says, Hey, hey, hold it, where’s my nickel? And I did have a nickel. I gave it to him. He took it, you know. And he told me, Well, you know, after a year’s passed, I’m going to retire, and I’m going to put you on the best job in the test site. And I said, Doing what? He said, We’re going to put in a man train, and you’re going to s