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Transcript of interview with John Graves by Hank Baran, March 1, 1987







On March 1, 1987, Hank Baran interviewed John Graves (born February 21st, 1938 in San Diego, California). This interview covers the gaming industry overall, and also highlights, women in gaming, more specifically. Mr. Graves also discusses the hotels on the Las Vegas Strip, McCarran Airfield, and golfing in Southern Nevada.

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Graves, John Interview, 1987 March 1. OH-00718. [Transcript.] Oral History Research Center, Special Collections & Archives, University Libraries, University of Nevada, Las Vegas. Las Vegas, Nevada.


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UNLV University Libraries John Graves 1 An Interview with John Graves An Oral History Conducted by Hank Baran Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries John Graves 2 © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2018 UNLV University Libraries John Graves 3 The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries John Graves 4 Abstract On March 1, 1987, Hank Baran interviewed John Graves (born February 21st, 1938 in San Diego, California). This interview covers the gaming industry overall, and also highlights, women in gaming, more specifically. Mr. Graves also discusses the hotels on the Las Vegas Strip, McCarran Airfield, and golfing in Southern Nevada. UNLV University Libraries John Graves 5 (Tape starts midsentence) –Baran. I’m in the history class here at Nevada History at the University of Nevada Las Vegas. I’m here doing an interview with John Graves who’s been in Las Vegas for a while. First of all, I’d like to ask you, Mr. Graves, what do you do for a living here in Las Vegas? I’ve been a dice dealer for about ten years and prior to that I was a dealer in the blackjack area. How long have you been here in Las Vegas, dealing? I moved here—I moved here about twenty years ago when Las Vegas didn’t have quite the glitter that it has right now. Hm. And since we’ve—my wife works as a lounge singer and I’ve been in the gambling, the dealing part for almost the entire twenty years. Yes. Well, just, well, how important is gambling to Las Vegas? Well, not only to Las Vegas but to the entire state of Nevada, it encompasses probably somewhere between thirty and thirty-five percent of the entire workforce. And as far as the revenues I’m sure not only to the state but to the private enterprises, in the millions of dollars. Yes. That’s—well, is the gaming now like the same as it was, what, twenty years ago? Or have they—? Well, there’s really—there’s really not, I don’t think that much difference. Mm-hmm. I mean the games are basically the same with—I don’t recall that baccarat was quite as prevalent as it is now. But—but of course the dice games and the blackjack or the cards, you know, they had poker palaces. The hotels of course were nowhere near as big as they are now not as flashy UNLV University Libraries John Graves 6 as they are now. But basically I would say, you know, everything other than of course the zeros are a lot bigger now because of the inflation and whereas twenty years ago a dollar really meant something but now a dollar hardly will buy you a cup of coffee up here. So I would say that the games were basically the same. The amounts probably are a lot bigger now. The hotels are certainly a lot flashier now. There’s a bigger emphasis on the big name actors that do play in the showrooms here and of course these people are brought here to draw the various people, so I would say, it’s basically the same. Excuse me, let me get a cigarette. Alright, now on these games here what would you say back then would be maybe the most popular game, to your recollection? Well, I think that even back then, poker was a lot more popular than it is now. Poker now has really taken a—other than the few tournaments that they have here, poker has taken a backseat to say, to dice, where big dollars flow, in baccarat where even bigger dollars flow. Mm-hmm. Now—now with that, do you think people have a tendency to lean toward the dice or the blackjack because it would seem to me blackjack would be a little easier to play and less complicated than the dice game. Would you think the people would—the majority of the people that come to Las Vegas would play blackjack or dice, basically? Well, I think that as you say, blackjack is a lot easier because the decisions were made right there on the table, of course it’s a lot slower moving game. However, blackjack, or dice excuse me, or craps, which I’m associated with right now, a person could win a lot more money. Of course he’s, he’s able to lose a lot more money, in a lot shorter period of time. It’s a game that has—it’s more romantic than cards is because it’s very flamboyant, there’s a lot of yelling and screaming especially the dice do make a lot of points and a lot of numbers and it, you know, sort of gets everyone all enthused, whereas playing cards or blackjack, it’s a, you know, there’s no yelling or UNLV University Libraries John Graves 7 screaming. Of course there are a lot more people that play blackjack because there are a lot more tables. Especially the women, they don’t know that much about craps so their tendency is to stay away from it and let their husbands go there and the women play the majority of cards. But I would say that the big money is probably in there. At the crap table. Okay, one of the things I noticed about Las Vegas is that they have an awful lot of people here right now, just you know, how do they get some of these people here? How did they get ‘em, you know, back then, few years ago? Well, you know with Las Vegas being out here in the middle of nowhere, you know, when gambling was first legalized, and you know, in the state of Nevada, by the way, was first renown, not for its gambling, but for the easy mode of obtaining a divorce. And you know, this of course is still quite prevalent in Las Vegas, as are quickie marriages, which you know, you’ve seen these chapels all over the place here. Yes. But you know, gambling has since come into the limelight, but back to your question, there are an awful lot of junkets with you know a layperson to a layperson a junket is you know something that you mix cream with and eat it as a dessert. (Laughs) But here it is the dessert for Las Vegas because a junket is a group of people that are put together by a junketeer, and the majority come from the east coast. They have to come here with an x number of dollar line of credit. Las Vegas will furnish the hotel and the food, providing that these people will gamble this line of credit. And all they’re asking is that they give them a shake for their money. Also, Las Vegas is probably the largest convention meeting grounds for doctors, lawyers, fertilizer companies, you name it, and they meet—they’ll meet here because of the UNLV University Libraries John Graves 8 glamour. A lot of people come here also because of the renowned entertainment. You know, I was just reading in the paper, I’ve not had the chance to see Dolly Parton, but read where she right now is the highest paid entertainer in Las Vegas at three hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars a week. Jeez. How, well, you know back a few years ago did they have that type of entertainer come to Las Vegas? Well, they had that type of entertainer, yes. But of course the dollars were nowhere near what the dollars are now. Back when I first started here, well, and he still probably the number one draw, is Frank Sinatra. Back then? Hm. I think that he was the number one draw then and I’m sure that if he’s not the number one draw now that he would certainly be way, way, way up the ladder. Well, you know, this thing that they’re having with Frank Sinatra now trying to get you know a (unintelligible) employed to Caesars Palace and that hearing that he’s going through right now, do you think what they’re really tryna find out is, you know, if he was connected to the mob or not or you know, back then, well, how was the mob connected to the business back then? Well, you know, whether, I certainly don’t know if the mob is behind any of these things. I would probably presume that maybe they were. You know, the mob or the mob or the mafia or whatever common (unintelligible) you use. Yes. I’m sure that they’re behind a lot of the gambling. But the one thing that I will tell you, I would say that Las Vegas is the best place if you want to go gamble. I mean, you have the fairest UNLV University Libraries John Graves 9 chance. There are so many regulations, the gaming commission, that there’s no way that a hotel is gonna slip a cold deck or hot dice on you. Not that they can’t. Yes. But they won’t. Mm-hmm. They have the percentages going for them. They want the people to come. They know they’re gonna win in the long run. They don’t have to cheat. Yes. Yes. Well, I think that the casinos, they would have to have a—back then, it would, I would think that the casinos would have a little more advantage because they really didn’t have all these regulations when they first, you know, when they first started out. Was there any kind of incidents or something like that, like say, on a roulette table or something like that where they could, you know, cheat, cheat the person? Not that I—oh they can cheat anytime, they sure could cheat, or we could cheat anytime we wanted to. Mm-hmm. But there’s really no need for it. I would think that in the time past that there probably, it would’ve been easier for the casinos to cheat because of the—you know there just weren’t as many regulations. But as I say, they don’t have to cheat. The casinos don’t have to cheat. Yes. Well, you know, getting back—getting back to dealing craps. What was your most unusual experience when you were dealing craps? Was anything weird happen back then? Or you know? Well, you know, there are a lot, a lot of funny things that have happened. I certainly met a lot of nice people in my tenure here in Las Vegas. But you know, probably the most unusual thing that UNLV University Libraries John Graves 10 ever happened, as this is certainly a true story, this is when I was working, this happened about five years ago. I was dealing at the Sands and this was on a weekend and it was very crowded, you know, and there was a man that wanted in on the table, that was shooting the dice very hard and we had forewarned him not to shoot ‘em hard and he threw ‘em up and the dice took a very funny bounce. And the man at the other end of the table, the dice hit him in the eye and his eye popped out. He had a glass eye. (Laughs) And this is certainly a true story. (Laughs) And everyone was completely dumbfounded and didn’t know what to do. (Laughs) (Laughs) You know, it was just one of those things. Everyone was thoroughly, they were laughing and crying and no one knew what to do. (Laughs) But I would—(Laughs) no, now that’s kinda, that’s (Laughs). Now that is— That is unusual. That is. And something that happened here just recently, a gentleman was rolling the dice. This is something a little more from the bizarre. The man was rolling the dice and the dice rolled down the end of the table and one stacked on top of the other. Certainly not. Yes. You know, nothing startling but I have not, in my twenty years in Las Vegas, I’ve only seen, this was only the second time that I’d ever seen that happen. UNLV University Libraries John Graves 11 Yes. Now getting like, say the twenty years ago, what, were the people basically the same as they are now or were they a little different, you know as far as their betting or you know their excitement, excitement wise and all that? Well, I think in the past Las Vegas—the slot machines were more prevalent because there just wasn’t the dollars available for gambling or the free money for gambling that’s available right now. Still in Las Vegas the slot machines draw the little old ladies and the, the very, the more conservative element. Yes. And the—the big dollars that are represented that a person could win for a quarter or fifty cents, I here, not too long ago, last year it seems to me that someone walked away with a two hundred and twenty five thousand or two hundred and thirty thousand on one of these progressive slot machines. But certainly the exception rather than the rule. The slot machines are regulated, here again also by the Nevada gaming commission. Whereas a certain percentage is gonna be won by the house or. Yes. And there are very liberal payoffs but as I say, the more affluent gambler will go to the crap tables or to the dice pit or even the very sophisticated gambler to the baccarat. Mm-hmm. Now back then were the gamblers, say like the crap shooters and all that, like you see in the movies, they’re so, they’re calm and collected and you know, nothing really bothers them, was it like that back then? I don’t think—I don’t think the gambler has changed. A gambler is a gambler. The majority of the people who come to Las Vegas are not gamblers. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries John Graves 12 They’re weekend visitors from Los Angeles, Chicago, even from abroad. I mean in, they’re here to have a good time, gambling is part of it. Mm-hmm. They come to see the shows, eat the good food and just have an all around good time. But the serious gambler, the gambler that’s here every week is certainly no different than back then. Yes. Now, now when the gambler came to Las Vegas, now back then was—did they use chips like they do know? Or did they play with cash basically when you started playing? Well, no, the chips were always around and a lot of silver dollars. The legitimate silver dollars, not the clad kind we had or used then. Mm-hmm. Here again, in the bygone years, a dollar, you know, meant a lot. Now a dollar really is a very small bet and most of the games, fact we don’t have a crap game here where you can play a dollar. Yes. I mean you can play a dollar on the numbers possibly but the pass line bet, the minimums are now two and in some casinos five and some of the bigger casinos maybe even ten dollars in peak time. Yes. Now say when you started at the major hotels and the minimum over there I would imagine would have to be pretty low. You know, low compared with right now. Say like maybe fifty cents or even a quarter. Oh, you mean the minimum bet? Or the minimum—? Say the minimum bet. Oh. Yes. Certainly. They were fifty cents or a dollar back then. You know. UNLV University Libraries John Graves 13 Yes. There were an awful lot of games. Yes. Five hundred dollar chips. Other than in the big games or the games upstairs, you know, were a pretty substantial bet. Yes. Now when you were, when you were dealing now with the so-called big games that they had upstairs that you just mentioned. Mm-hmm. What, you know, how come they had ‘em upstairs? Why did they send everybody upstairs to play? Well, because we’re talking now about games with, with a limit of five hundred dollars, and a maximum limit of the sky. Yes. Whereas you know a game here recently you know that has gone through the grapevine were, were some Iranian oil tycoons came over here with satchels full of money and they certainly don’t want to be bothered with someone playing five dollars. They take ‘em upstairs, you know, the food and women and everything that they want is up there. They’re not bothered. And I understand these fellas went—went through about close to six million dollars in one night that they lost. That’s kind of a substantial sum. Now back then, like you always read about some of the maybe the mobsters or the you know members of the mafia having a you know great influence of gambling in Las Vegas. Did they just come right out and play? Were they just out you know, like some of the—? UNLV University Libraries John Graves 14 Oh, I, no, no, I think you’re, that’s certainly way before my time and I don’t know that this were the case but gamblers are gamblers and you can’t tell if a fella would be associated with a mafia or whether he’s a fireman. Yes. You know, you just don’t know. So there are kinda, you know they just blend in with everybody else and then, yes? They just blended in with the people, I would presume, I don’t know. Yes. Yes. One of the—one of the things you see, that I see with Las Vegas right now is, you know, the, like I said, they have a, you know, a lot of the big name entertainers right now, you know the big showrooms, you know the whole kit and caboodle, how did they have—you know what were the types of entertainers twenty years ago? What, you know, what? Well, you know the biggest change that I can see is what has really disappeared is the standup comic that got his start in the lounges. The lounge show back then were, they were sort of a breeding ground for you know people like Don Rickles, Milton Berle, Shecky Greene, these guys were all standup comedians and they performed in the lounges. Mm-hmm. Even say, twenty years ago. The ballrooms were, they weren’t as big and the prices weren’t as expensive as they are now and people tended more to go to the various lounge shows. So. As I said. So they wrote, did, you know, did they have that big show room back then? Well, they had the showrooms but they were sort of split. Yes. UNLV University Libraries John Graves 15 Between the showroom and the lounge. And the showrooms now have just completely taken over where in the lounge now there are musical groups, rock groups, and Elvis impersonators. I think every cocktail lounge or every lounge show here has an Elvis impersonator. Whereas in the years gone by, the standup comics were very, very prevalent there. And this is where, where they learned their trade. These people are all now, they’re all headliners in the various shows now. As I said, Rickles, Berle, Shecky Greene. Yes. Henny Youngman, you know, they’re all—they’re all stars now. Yes. Well do you think—like say, when Rickles and those people were coming up, do you think that the people would prefer—do you think that they, you know, really enjoyed like the lounge atmosphere over the, say the big ballroom atmosphere? Oh I, I certainly do. It was a lot more intimate and it was certainly was a heck of a lot cheaper. Yes And it was a more of a down to earth type entertainment. Yes. You know, about the— Not with the fancy bands and everything glaring behind ‘em. Yes. They were just basically on their own. We they basically on their own or yes? They were. It was a one on one type thing between the comedian and the audience. Yes. You bet. Yes. Well that would seem to me that, you know that, it would just be better for the person, you know the individual singing. That would draw the person to come to Las Vegas for that. UNLV University Libraries John Graves 16 Well, it did and the person with not as big a bankroll could afford to see you know the top, topnotch entertainment. Whereas now, you know, some of the minimums in these shows are forty dollars a couple plus the tip, plus you know the gratuities and everything to get in, you know, you’re looking at a hundred dollars to see a show, and a lot of people just can’t afford that, even now with as much money is flowing around. Mm-hmm. Whereas back then for a couple of drinks, for two or three dollars, they could have an evening full of fun. Yes, just you know, just go there with a few bucks and they’ll be there all night. That’s exactly true, enjoy it. And they’ll have one heck of a time. And laugh all night long. Well, sure. What other gimmicks did they—did Las Vegas use to draw people in? Was it just the glitter or, you know? Oh, I don’t— Maybe not so much back then but you know how did you get the people to come to Las Vegas back then? Was it to gamble? Or was that the only—? Well, I don’t know. I don’t know. As I say, I’m not real sure. And I’m certainly no authority on anything like that. Mm-hmm. But I do think the lounges drew a lot of the people. The gambling of course, as it is now, is still the number one draw. The people, as I say, they’re not serious gamblers or weekend gamblers. They all have an aspiration of coming up here and winning a million dollars or winning a fifty UNLV University Libraries John Graves 17 thousand dollars or whatever. But the gambling back then and now has been the number one draw. Although now much more so than back then, in the years gone by. You know, the big named entertainers. You know, Vegas is known as glitter town, all the glitter and tinsel and everything, that draws the people here. Yes. There’s, there’s just a lot more people now with a lot more money. Mm—hmm. Did they have like these big resorts like the golfing resort and all that? Would that have something to do with drawing in people? Oh, they had, they had the golf courses, probably not as many as they have now. And golfing wasn’t as popular as it is now. Mm-hmm. But I don’t think golf per say draws a lot of people here. There are certain, there are weather limitations here in Las Vegas. In the summer it’s very warm, obviously. Mm-hmm. And in the winter, the wind does blow and occasion rain. So I don’t think golfing draws a lot of people. There are certain tournaments that are held up here. That are used as inducement to get people up here but— Yes. If they had to depend on golf, I don’t think that many people would come. Uh-huh. Well, nowadays you see the—for example, Desert Inn is, they’re holding, you know, they have that TV show, Vegas, is basically based at the Desert Inn. Did they—say twenty years ago? Did they have the, you know, did they hold movies? Were movies made there, in Las Vegas, right there? UNLV University Libraries John Graves 18 I don’t think so, not at all. This is Las Vegas certainly is advancing dramatically and the filming of these shows like say, a Dan Tanner is filmed at the Desert Inn, or Las Vegas I guess they call the show. Yes. There are a number of them, Mike Douglas is filmed at one of the major hotels. I don’t know which one he’s at, The Gambit. Gambit. And a lot of these other talk shows, not talk shows but quiz shows or what have you. Quiz for dollars are filmed here. Yes. And I think more and more people are coming here. Uh-huh. Also you know a lot of things that they’re promoting now that they didn’t you know, ten, fifteen, twenty years ago. These hundred thousand dollar winner-take-all tennis matches, and the boxing matches, you know, it’s certainly ideal, anything, any sort of a game to draw people with big names and you know anything they can bet a dollar on they’ll have here. Yes. Well, didn’t they just, just recently start say, like the sport industry in Las Vegas, you know such as like the boxing at Ceasars Palace where they have like the big heavyweight championship? Yes. And I think the reason for this, I think the promoters of boxing or tennis or golf or what have you have always been afraid of you know, of bringing to Vegas, because of the closeness of gambling but this is just a, this is a very antiquated idea and people are gonna gamble and then that’s just it. UNLV University Libraries John Graves 19 Yes. Well, then again we’re getting back to like some of the gimmicks that they’re using right now, such as you know, those golf tournaments, the championship bouts in boxing and all that for to get in people. And I think that, one of things that Las Vegas is known for is, you know, they’re getting the people in here to you know basically just to gamble, and they’re using these entertainers and all that to get ‘em in. Plus that you know, I think that the person, what was the—what did the person do when he came to Las Vegas? You know, was he just here to gamble? When you—? Well, I think basically he was. Few years ago. And another thing, they’re trying to make some entertainment for the man’s wife. Mm-hmm. Whereas I think now it’s more of a couple thing than— Yes. Than say, twenty years ago when the majority of only men came up here. Yes. And now it’s a, with the shows, with the shopping, and there are some of the finest restaurants in the world are right on the Strip there. Every major hotel and as well as the minor ones have gourmet rooms. You know, and it’s just some of the finest dining with exquisite service, exquisite prices, too. Mm-hmm. But the majority of these people are gamblers. They are on the complimentary ticket. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries John Graves 20 So the sky’s the limit. You know, these hotels just wine and dine everybody. But it is a thing for the husbands wife. You know, she’s just not completely in left field now. Right now. Uh-huh. Yes. Whereas, you know basically a few years ago she was, it was a man’s industry, gambling. Right and I think, the woman was completely overlooked. Mm-hmm. But now the women, they want to go to they want to be a part of the action. Mm-hmm. You know you see all these, on these hotels, all these high rises and you know, all these, you know, they’re just getting gigantic like two thousand rooms, fifteen hundred rooms, or something like that. Why do you think, or did they have that big of a place, say twenty years ago, was it that big? Oh no, no. Because the people weren’t—they, you know with the various promotions and everything and conventions more people are coming to Las Vegas. Yes. Well, why do you think one of the reasons is that they’re gonna you know, other than the, you know, all the people coming to Las Vegas, why do you think that they’re those, they’re just building on, building on? How are they—? Why are they building—? How? Because people, people are coming. There are more and more people coming. Is it because they’re losing? You know, they’re losing all? (Laughs) You know, basically, the person that comes to Las Vegas, you know, he loses his money here, and are they building those places from a—? Well, the only thing that that I can tell you is if the casinos were losing they wouldn’t be building these high rises. UNLV University Libraries John Graves 21 Yes. Yes. So, basically the, the gambler from back then been paying for all of the stuff going up? All the gamblers are paying for the things that are going up. Yes, yes. So, so Las Vegas, I would—that has to be it in Las Vegas. That has to be it in Las Vegas, is the gambling. Still the gambling is number one. It always will and it always, it will and it always will be. Well, now here in Las Vegas, you know, like, we’re out in the middle of nowhere. You know, we’re out in the middle of the desert, what—you know did it just—did the people all of a sudden, you know, all of a sudden they were here, like? Well, Las Vegas, there was a lot of mining around here and, and then, you know, when gambling became legal, its not legal anywhere else other than in Atlanta, you know the state lotteries are, you know, they’re a rip off. Not only do the states take a bigger percentage. Then if you win they tax you on it. You know, the state lotteries are a big rip off and this is the only place that gambling is legal. I’m sure that if gambling were legal in California, then Las Vegas and all of Nevada would be a ghost town. Mm-hmm. But Las Vegas certainly has very strong lobbies in California that probably will permit this least in our lifetime. Mm-hmm. Okay. Another, one of the aspects I think that Las Vegas has is, you know, the women of Las Vegas, what, you know, what about some of the women of Las Vegas? Well. Las Vegas has more beautiful women probably than any town its size in the world. It may have as many beautiful women as any city in the world no matter what’s its size. There’s a, you UNLV University Libraries John Graves 22 know, the reason for this it’s quite simple, and money and beautiful women zing. They go together like two magnets and boy this is really true in Las Vegas. Okay, you know, well, where did the women, you know, where did they come from? Well, I’ll tell you, the girls and women they come from all over the United States, and even from all over the world. They come in many ways and for many reasons. It’s American folklore that the prettiest girl in every small town or city escapes to Hollywood to seek fame and fortune. If she misses Las Vegas in her rush to movie stardom, the odds are that the wiser she’ll be when she hits Las Vegas. Boy, they never want to go home to their family or their friends saying that they have blown it or they’ve defeated. So she’ll stay in Vegas and try to make her fortune whether it’s the legitimate way or the illegitimate way but by God from Hollywood, the dropouts seem to always end up in Las Vegas. Okay, now, what does a woman basically have to have to come and maybe work in Las Vegas? Will tell you one thing, she has got to be good looking. You know, there have been a lot of roads barred to the women, you know because of discrimination and everything. But the one thing the woman has is her beauty. And women are encouraged, you know, by the men, all the men and all the money there in Vegas. Now why, just you know, why are some of the women attracted to Las Vegas? Well, you know, their attracted because of the hotels need for the beautiful girls in the showrooms. All these, you know, the spectaculars, the feature nudes, who are chosen because of their looks and their bodies and they also have to be skilled dancers. All these girls work very hard and their virtuous as the girl next door but that doesn’t mean they’re gonna stay there. You UNLV University Libraries John Graves 23 know, sooner or later, you know, the career is gone, you know, if they can’t make it and a lot of them take it, they go to the streets. Mm-hmm. So you know that’s basically the so called lady of the evening. The lady of the evening. The hooker. Whatever you want to call her. Okay. Now what about say, you know, you have your cocktail waitress, and you know the shills of Las Vegas, you know, what about them? Well. You know, the cocktail waitresses of course are the gals, that you know, they’re hustling drinks in the casinos. They make enormous tips. Even in the years of gone by you know, it’s tradition for a cocktail waitress to just keep bringing the drinks, especially if she sees a guy as hot in blackjack or in craps, she’s gonna bring the drinks for obvious reasons, you know. The more he’s winning the more he’s willing to, you know, to pass— Tip her or? Pass the tips out. And you know, boy, the pit boss, if he sees the guys winning they’re gonna want drinks to go to that guy. Mm-hmm. Because they’re gonna wanna deaden his extinct a little bit with booze. Yes. So they’re gonna get him a little bit drunk, you know. Yes. (Laughs) And you know, then you mentioned shills. The drunker the better. And you know it seems like you can’t hardly spot the girls that are shills at the dice table or at the blackjack table. But boy you go to the baccarat table and you know they just stick out like sore thumbs. You know they’re always overdressed. You know they’re sitting there and starting the game waiting for the player to come. UNLV University Libraries John Graves 24 Mm-hmm. And you know you just they just stick out at the baccarat table. Uh-huh. Now where did some of the, you know, women of Las Vegas come from? You know, did they come from other towns or how did they do that? Well, you know a lot of these girls, a lot of these girls work as secretaries, cooks, you know, what have you, legal assistants in towns like LA, Salt Lake City, any, San Francisco, any of the West Coast towns, manicurists, dental assistants, but they come to Las Vegas on the weekend and a lot of them are even married. And they come to Las Vegas and their our weekend call girls. Uh-huh. So they’re on that—you know the call girls, it just seems like, what did the pit boss or something, or did the women just come over there and just you know? Well, you know they’re—you know the pit boss of course, or the affluent gambler or, would call one over or what have you and or they just beat the streets or go to the various cocktail lounges. Uh-huh. Now say, you said that some of the girls like they come from other towns, LA, Sa