Transcript of interview with Joan Massagli by Claytee White, August 19, 2010

An Interview with Joan Massagli An Oral History Conducted by Claytee D. White The Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project Oral History Research Center at UNLV University Libraries University of Nevada Las Vegas ©The Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project University of Nevada Las Vegas, 2007 Produced by: The Oral History Research Center at UNLV - University Libraries Director and Editor: Claytee D. White Assistant Editors: Barbara Tabach and Gloria Homol Transcribers: Kristin Hicks and Laurie Boetcher Interviewers and Project Assistants: Suzanne Becker, Nancy Hardy, Joyce Moore, Andres Moses, Laura Plowman, Emily Powers, Dr. Dave Schwartz ii The recorded interview and transcript have been made possible through the generosity of Dr. Harold Boyer and the Library Advisory Committee. The Oral History Research Center enables students and staff to work together with community members to generate this selection of first-person narratives. The participants in this project thank the university for the support given that allowed an idea the opportunity to flourish. The transcript received minimal editing that includes the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. In several cases, photographic sources (housed separately) accompany the collection as slides or black and white photographs. The following interview is part of a series of interviews conducted under the auspices of the Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project. Additional transcripts may be found under that series title. Claytee D. White, Project Director Director, Oral History Research Center University Libraries University Nevada, Las Vegas iii List of Illustrations Joan Massagli and Mark Tully Massagli Frontispiece Childhood singing group Following Page: 4 Mark Tully Massagli,, electric bass player, 1960s 10 Includes: Louis Prima, Hank Penny and Sue Thompson, Roy Clark, among others. Sawyer Sisters at Showboat Casino 23 1960s publicity photos 29 Includes: Joan Rivers, Wingy Manone, Liza Minelli and others Preface Joan Massagli spent her childhood in the Tacoma, Washington area, singing three-part harmony—a member of a musically talented family that included five children and an aunt and uncle who raised all the kids to enjoy music. By high school in the early 1950s, she and her two older sisters were regulars on a local TV show. In 1956, the Sawyer Sisters act was formed and they were soon obtaining regular gigs in Las Vegas. Their popularity continued form 1957 to 1964 and they played many of the major hotels, usually as a warm up act for headliners that includes a list of names such as Roy Clark, Louis Prima, Shecky Greene, and Delia Reece. At first the Sawyer Sisters included older sister Nanette Susan and Joan. When Nanette quit to raise her family, youngest sister Kate stepped into what was called a "lively and lovely" trio. Joan met her future husband and musician Mark Tully Massagli, while performing in the early 1960s. Caring for ailing parents while working mostly in Las Vegas, the couple made Vegas home. Even after the Sawyer Sisters name faded from the Strip's marquees, Las Vegas remained home to the Massagli's, who raised their children here. Today they live in the Blue Diamond Village area and recall the changes that have occurred on the Las Vegas Strip—especially from an entertainer's point of view. vi Joan Sawyer Massagli and husband Mark Tully Massagli (1963) ORAL HISTORY RESEARCH CENTER AT UNLV Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project Use Agreement jylroa M A/1 ^ ^ ^ 4 (' LI&A&L XlWjkzEi We, the above named, give tothe Oc&l History Research Center of UNLV, tlie recorded interview(s) initiated on ft j// /(AA/V as an unrestricted gift, to be used for such scholarly and educational purpose/as shall he determined, and transfer to the University of Nevada Las Vegas, legal title and all literary property rights including copyright. Tltis gift does not preclude the right of die interviewer, as a representative of UNLV, to use the recordings and related materials for scholarly pursuits. There will be no compensation for any interviews. Name of Narrator: Name of Interviewer: Library Special Collections 4505 Maryland Parkway, Box 457010, Las Vegas, Nevada 89154-7070 (702)895-2222 ORAL HISTORY RESEARCH CENTER AT UNLV Boyer Early Las Vegas Oral History Project Use Agreement Name of Narrator: Name of Interviewer: V /VX-ftF-4 f-L i We, the above named, give t/th</Oral History Research Center of UNLV, the recorded interview(s) initiated on _ as an unrestricted gift, to be used for such scholarly and educational p^irp^ses as shall be determined, and transfer to die University of Nevada Las Vegas, legal tide and all literary property rights including copyright. Tliis gift does not preclude die right of die interviewer, as a representadve of UNLV, to use die recordings and related materials for scholarly pursuits. There will be no compensation for any interviews. Signature of Narrator ' / Date / Library Special Collections 4505 Maryland Parkway, Box 457010, Las Vegas, Nevada 89154-7070 (702) 895-2222 This is Clay tee White. It is August 19 th, 2010. I am on the Blue Diamond Highway in the home of — could you give me your name and could you spell it for me? Joan Massagli, M-A-S-S-A-G-L-I. Thank you so much, Joan. We're here with Joan's husband, as well. So could you give me your name and spell it, as well? Mark Tully Massagli. M-A-R-K, T-U-L-L-Y, M-A-S-S-A-G-L-I. Thank you so very much. Mark is doing the paperwork. So I'm going to start by talking to Joan. Joan, tell me about your early life. And you can include where you grew up and how many kids in the family and what your parents did for a living. Susan and Nannette and I were born in Burlington, Washington, and Katie was born in Tacoma. That was in the 30s and 40s. Okay. And your brother was born where? Also in Burlington. So of the three who's oldest? Well, actually when we all started singing together it was five, five of us. Nannette was the oldest. Then it was Susan, then me, then Benny and Katie. Okay, good. However, when I was four and Benny was three, we came to live with Nadia and Grant Sauer. But my brother's and my maiden name is Norris. My father was Nadia's brother. So they were our aunt and uncle. And so anyway, Nadia ~ of course, I call them mom and dad, but I'll say Nadia — she was very musical and played the piano and banjo and guitar. Growing up in the ~ it was upper Washington, the state of Washington. She and her brothers performed all over. So what kinds of places did they perform? It was more up there at that time big dairy farms. So it would be the local, oh, what, the Elks Club and those kinds of things and parties. Anyway, so she just lined us all up and she taught us harmony. So then we started performing as little kids PTAs and like I say the Elks Club and more. We actually would perform for the governor at his little special dinner things. So that's how we kind of grew up singing. It 1 was Nannette, Susan and me, Joan. We sang three-part harmony. And then our brother would come in with the bass. And little Katie sang by herself. Do you remember some of the first songs that you learned? You know, oh, back then there was a song called "Hoop-De-Doo." All those old songs back then. And then my mother loved the spirituals and she taught us all of those. All the kind of little popular songs that were then. That's good. So the entire family was musical. Uh-huh. And Grant was thrilled with it. He just loved it. He was a very quiet, wonderful man. He just always had a smile on his face. He would listen to us sing. It was nice. And he'd go along with us. It was all of us. So let's see. So it sounds like the family was really close. Yes, very. And then while Joan and Nannette and Susan — me speaking as Joan — we were in high school and we were regulars on a local TV show. Oh, and when we were little, we were regulars on a little radio show, too. While in high school Benny decided that he was going to be a science teacher. So he had had enough of all these girls. And then he went on to become a science teacher. Then he joined the Peace Corps and was sent to Quito, Ecuador for four years. And then after that he and his — he married Fran Sorg, also a teacher. Then they taught in the Bahamas on Marsh Harbour, Abaco there. And then he was killed there. Oh, that was very hard. Oh, it had to be. So then also while we were on this little TV show ~ and we did it out of Seattle ~ it also went into Oregon and this man heard us. So he contacted mother. Nadia, I'm calling mother, even though she's my aunt. He wanted us to come to Oregon and record a song that he had written for a song contest for WSM Network in Nashville, Tennessee. So we did. And the song didn't win, but we got a telegram from Jim Denny, who was the head of WSM, and wanted us to come back and record. So we did. And we recorded for Dot Records. That was in 1955. The song was "I'm Going To Go Home To Mama." And then in 1956 on Dot we recorded "How 'Bout It?" And under the name The Sunbeams. They gave us the name The Sunbeams. And then after returning — And this was the three of you? 2 Uh huh. And so then after returning to Tacoma Nannette decided she had had enough. Well, she had fallen in love and wanted to get married and settle down. And she did. And she and her husband, Larry Martin, had two adorable children, Brenda and Michael. And so then Katie, little Katie took Nannette's place. By then Susan and I had graduated from high school. And did you attend high school in Tacoma? Uh-huh. And we entered the University of Puget Sound while it was still the College of Puget Sound. Before you start there, what was high school like with all of the entertaining that you were doing? I'll tell you it was kind of crazy because we had moved into this area of Tacoma called Lakewood. It was a very, very upscale — I mean very upscale area. I mean these were doctors, lawyers, architects, one was Griffin Oil, all of that, those kinds. And they lived in big estates that would take you forever to drive through the driveway to get to the home. It was on the American Lake. And these were the children that attended this school, plus children from Fort Lewis. Okay. What are those children like? So their parents were career army. Our father was a custom cabinetmaker. And he had his big shop there. He had a shop in Lakewood. And he would just build these beautiful custom — whatever they wanted. So it was a big grocery store that was empty. And so he took the bottom part and the upstairs was this big area where we lived. He fixed that so beautiful, a big beautiful deck and winding stairs and everything. And we kids were just used to - you know, we loved outdoors. And we landscaped the whole place and planted trees. It was on some acreage. And it was quite unusual. So you really did most of that, didn't you? Yeah, I did. And so it was a really unusual way of living for that area. So then the first day - it was Clover Park High School. We go to Clover Park High School and we wanted to get into the music choir, whatever it was, so Nannette, Susan and me. The teacher or the lady from the office sent us. She said just go on in and he'll stop the class and tell him that you want to be in here. So we walked in. All these students looked up. The teacher looked up and he said, yes? So we said why we were there. And he said, well, you have to audition; do you want to sing? So we just 3 started in on this big old song that we performed everywhere like we were performing, not thinking anything of it, and three-part harmony. And I remember the look on these kids' faces were like, oh, my, oh, where did they come from? In a good way? Well, we were so different. Okay. I see. These children had I'm sure traveled many times to Europe. I mean it was just their different way of living — servants, maids, all of this kind of thing and the way they dressed, everything that way. So we became sort of like these kids that they wanted to know, like who are you? And it ended up they were very nice and we made a lot of nice friends. But they still weren't ~ you know, even to this day I think a little bit — we were so different in our lifestyle and our — we did not have the time like they did to — they belonged to the ski clubs and they would go to all those kinds of places. There were five children and we didn't do that. And we spent our time performing. And so we were just different. But they were very ~ it was very nice. So when it came to things like high school proms and all of that, were you a part of that? Yes. We went to the proms. I mean really with nice boys and had a regular high school good time. Good. How many years difference are between Nannette, Susan and you? Okay. Let's see. Susan and I are a month apart because we're cousins. Oh, that's right. Good. And Nannette was four years older. So when you arrived at the high school, Nannette was almost ready to leave. Yes. And Katie is six years younger. Wonderful. We've talked about The Sunbeams and you've already recorded in Nashville. How long were you in the Washington area, the Tacoma area before leaving there? Oh, gosh. You started to tell me about going to college. Yes. So what we would do is - okay. This is how that worked. So then while--oh, during that time while we were at college, we would be working in nightclubs in Seattle by then and 4 Vancouver and all of that. So Mom and we girls and our dad, we decided we really needed to be more professional. So they said, well, we'll go to California. See, during that time that we were at college and high school, there was a talent scout there, Roy Gordon, that we worked for. We were his regulars on Temple Theatre every week. We opened, closed it, and did a specialty number. And so he had a daughter, Peggy Gordon, that lived in California and she was a professional dancer in movies and on TV, the Colgate Comedy Hour, Red Skelton, all those shows. She got us together with the right contacts. And so we worked up an act with ~ do you remember the Mickey Mouse Club with Annette Funicello? Yes. Well, it was their choreographer and their musical arranger that worked with us. So we broke in our new act as the Sawyer Sisters at Izzy's on the Sunset Strip. And this is about which year that the Sawyer Sisters get started? Oh, that's so hard to remember. Around '56. Fifty-six about? I think so. Yes. Maybe '56. Because you came to Nevada the next year; is that about right? Well, I guess. Yes, you're right. And so then after that we got an agent. Then he put us with Dynasty Records. Well, then I wrote the song. I wrote the A side and it was called "Here I Am." It started really doing well. We'd go to the different TV shows and lip-sync to our record while the teenagers danced. Then also he booked us into our first job in Nevada in Reno at the Holiday Hotel and Casino. That was a brand-new hotel and casino in Reno. So we're working there. Our record starts climbing. And then we hadn't seen him for a while or heard from him. Who? The agent. So here he comes driving up in a brand-new beautiful white Cadillac. Well, guess who paid for it? Yes, indeed. He was not a nice man. He had also forged something on our contract. So mother ripped it up and that was the end of the record, all of it. That was it So when you left Washington to go to California and then to Reno, did your mother travel 5 with you? Yes. Wonderful. And I forgot to say when Susan was going to the University of Puget Sound, she met Ken Marsolais and they fell in love. He was a musical student. And they fell in love and got married and then a year later they had Melody. So when we went to — little Melody. So when we went to California it was we girls, Melody and mother. Okay. And Susan's husband? No. Hedidntgo. By then things were a little shaky. So it wasn't long that they were divorced, but parted as friends and are still friends to this day. That's wonderful. Now, let s see. Okay. So then we got a new agent and we got steady work and we joined the Harry Ranch Review. We worked on new arrangements and the experience was really a good one. So the Harry Ranch Review was where? The Golden Nugget. Okay. Golden Nugget in — Here. In Las Vegas? Uh-huh. So was that your first entree into Las Vegas? Yes. No, no, no. It wasn't? You guys worked the old Frontier. Oh, that's right. Gosh, I completely forgot that. So after the Sawyer Sisters were formed in '56, you started coming to Las Vegas pretty regularly? Fifty-seven, yes. And then that's when they worked at the Frontier. Yeah. At the Last Frontier. Oh, gosh, I completely forgot. Then we worked the New Frontier. 6 And then we worked the Golden Nugget with Harry Ranch. And then when we were with Harry Ranch, Susan and Max Daffner, Harry's drummer, fell in love and were later married. Okay. So once this started happening in Las Vegas, did you move here? Yes. So what part of the city did you live? Oh, we just lived in apartments because we were on the road. So we'd stay in motels and that kind of thing. So we were just all over the place. So you didn't move into a house permanently at that point? No, because like I say we were on the Nevada circuit, you know, Lake Tahoe, Reno, all over the place. Okay. So now, after Harry Ranch we're on our own again. So Max joined the Sawyer Sisters. Then Chris Pan, a pianist and arranger, also joined us. And Chris worked out a new show for us. It was very successful and we worked the Las Vegas Strip at the Flamingo, Tropicana, Riviera, Dunes, and a lot of them are imploded. Like I say I had forgotten about the Last Frontier. So tell me what that show was like, the show that was on the Strip. Oh, gosh, how do I say? Our music was very — Mark, can you help me out there? Sure. They did standards. They did gospel. They did Broadway tunes. They did country. And then they had a special that they would do at the end of the show called the "Hoot-n-Annie. " And they had a gutbucket, which is a big washtub with a spring and a post on it, and played bass. Katie played that. Susan played banjo. Joan played guitar. And they would do a lot of rip-roaring old gospel stuff and country stuff and bring the house down. So what kinds of outfits did they wear? They were beautiful. Oh, I was going to say the "Hoot-n-Annie" thing, that was very popular then with the Kingston Trio. So that was the rage. Well, there was a lady here that made the costumes for the DeCastro Sisters. I mean theirs were beautiful. So we found her. I'm thinking about Madonna with her bustier. Of course, ours were more — Subdued? Not quite as revealing? Yes. But she built the bustier and then she would take this sequined material and put that on top of all of that and cover it with a scoop neck and the straps. And then she would bring it down tight 7 around our waists and bring it down further. Then she would take this fine, fine tulle. I mean it was just so fine. And she would fix it so it started at the waist very narrow — and then how she managed ~ and then it would flare out. So it would flare out from there? Yes, way out and a lot under it. So our waists looked like they were 19 inches. So then she would take a belt and cover that with the sequins. So you put on the bustier. Then you'd put on the skirt. And then the belt also had the sequins like the top. So then you'd hook the belt around it. So it just looked like one piece. And she did it in different beautiful colors. I remember we opened at the Riviera at Christmas. And she had done snow white skirts and red sequined tops. All the female acts at that time ~ there was a shoe store called QualiCraft or Leeds and they'd all go in there. You could get your three-inch heels. They were peau de soie or some kind of linen. You'd have them dyed to match anything. And so they dyed our shoes red. And then we had, of course, the crystal earrings. I would walk out from one side of the stage, Katie would walk out from the other, and Susan at the Riviera you could walk out from the middle. So the music would start and then we had our opening thing that we did. And I remember we just came out. And the whole audience just went, aaah. And it was those beautiful costumes. So that's what we wore. Oh, that's wonderful. What happened to those costumes? You know, they get beat up so fast by traveling and packing and wearing and cleaning. They're just gone. So when you're traveling like that do you have people traveling with you, helpers or people to take care of the costumes? Anybody like that traveling with you? No. We did it. We did it. And mother traveled with us until dad retired. And then dad was with us, too. Oh, wonderful. And mother would take care of Melody while we were working. Then we all played with Melody. Tell me about the makeup. Oh, this was what was funny. Our first job in Nevada. Okay. And the entertainment director— we did our first show ~ and he says, girls, I want to talk to you. So we went in his office. We 8 went into his office and he said, you know, this is big time. He says I want to see thick mascara, eyeliner that isnt just barely drawn on, I want to see rhinestone earrings and heavier makeup and darker lipstick. And he said this is show business. You know, because we just kind of came out of the university in Tacoma. So we all looked at each other and said, oh, okay. So after that we just kind of-- Did you get someone to teach you how to do it? No. We just looked at the other acts and did it. So you did your own? Uh-huh, yes. Great. So we just thought, well, hey, that's the way it is. It was kind of fim. And let's see. So now we are in Nevada. Let me see how I — What are some of your favorite places to entertain during that period, late 50s, early 60s? Which hotel was your favorite? Oh. Well, we loved our first job in Reno because this hotel/casino was right on the edge of the Truckee River. And sometimes we would double back during the day. Our shoes, you know, those high heels, you wore them on the stage. You wore them when you got offstage, other high heels, because you were supposed to look a certain way. And we would change our clothes. And then we would go out the back of the hotel and we'd walk down to the river. And we would take our shoes off and sit there with our feet in the cold water. That must have felt so good. We would say, oh, this is so nice. Nobody could see us. That was nice. And it was just Reno. We loved Reno. It was small then. And it still is. Yes. Some of the dancers and showgirls who worked at casinos in the line there, after their shows they would go out onto the casino floor and they would have drinks with the guests. Were you expected to do any of that? No. No, not at all. Another thing, we would finish our show and we would just go back to the 9 motel because we wanted to get our sleep because during the day we would go back to the hotel and rehearse with Chris, our piano player and arranger, and break in new things, new songs. But they never expected us to do that. So did you become the songwriter for the group? I only wrote that one for our record. Chris, he did some fantastic arrangements and some of them were quite you would say jazz like, and a lot of that, and medleys of different songs together, show songs, you know, the Broadways, those. How would you say? I don't want to say difficult because then audience does not want to ~ Yes. But sophisticated. Yes. More like that, yes. So that's how we did it. So anyway, we were booked into the Golden Nugget. Mark was working there, my husband now, with the Hank Penny and Sue Thompson Show. And they were headlining. His stage name was Mark Tully. The dressing rooms were upstairs. So I was heading upstairs to the dressing room and there was a platform there. And then you went around the corner and the stairs started again. I got almost to the platform and he was coming down the stairs. And I looked up and it was Mark. And he goes, hi. And I went, oh, hi. I was just like, oh my. He was in his tuxedo, as they say his gig suit, heading to the stage. So anyway, we kind of hit it off. But, you know, we would see each other maybe in Reno. There was the Riverside Hotel and the Mapes. And they were across the street from each other. So they'd be booked there and we'd be booked at one. And we'd kind of say, hi, how are you. And then maybe Lake Tahoe, you know, they'd be in one, we'd be in one place. Over the years we just kind of really liked each other. So he eventually asked me to marry him. I was just telling — You missed the good part. I missed the best part. And I want you to know — oh, and Roy Clark was with his band there for a while. And Roy Clark said — now, Mark, I can say it — he said, before there was a Tom Jones, there was a Mark Tully. Wow. Oh, yes. 1 0 Louis Prima Band recording at Prima's studio at Stairway to the Stars. Prima (foreground) wearing hat. Musicians, left to right: Joey Preston (drums), Sam Melchionne (conductor), Mark Tully Massagli (electric bass), Bob Rozario (keyboard), Roland Di lorio (upright bass). Other musicians unidentified. 1959 photo of Hank Penny and Sue Thompson Show: (left to right) Hank Penny, Stan Harris, Glenn Blair, Sue Thompson, Frank Maio, Curly Chalker, Mark Tully Massagli and Roy Clark. Fantastic. So were you a singer or did you play an instrument? Both. So then we - okay. We married and we had two sons, Mark the Third and Michael. Katie married a pit boss and had Joe and Danny. And then later Katie got a divorce and married a fireman, Ed Render, and had little Eddie Junior. But like I say we each had a long career. Our mainstay really was the Riviera. And we would come in for how many weeks, Mark? And by that time Mark had joined our group. This was six weeks at a time. And then they'd keep us for nine. So that was really nice. And then, one time our contract was over and the entertainment director said, girls — now, this was when the Beatles had come in and become popular — girls, the next time you come here we want you in hot pants. Oh, wow. And that look. And we looked at each other and I knew that was it. So we went back to the dressing room. We just kind of looked at each other and said, you know what, it's time to quit. So which year was that? Ooh, you have to wait until Mark comes back. Okay. So things changed that drastically. That drastically. Okay. Were the Sawyer Sisters the headliners on most of your shows? No, we weren't. We were second and sometimes headlined. So you were the opening act for others? Yes. So give me some of the people that you performed with? Oh, okay. Shecky Greene at the Riviera. He would come off the stage and we would go on. But the ceiling, by the time he got finished, was on the floor because in his act he would just get so into his act he'd take the head part off the microphone and he'd start hitting the ceiling with the microphone stand or the pole and just tear it up. So we'd go up there and kick the ceiling bits and pieces out of the way and just continue on. And then another time at Harrah's -- I think we were in Lake Tahoe -- Jimmy Wakely had 11 just finished his show. And our piano player, Chris Pan, at times, well, he didn't know when to keep his mouth shut. Oh, okay. So Jimmy Wakely came off the set and Chris said — oh, Jimmy had his daughter singing with him And Chris said, you know, your daughter can't sing and besides that she's ugly. Well, Jimmy Wakely just took his fist and let him have it and knocked him out cold. And we are just coming right up to get on the stage and there's our piano player out cold on the floor. So Mark, my husband Mark, and Susan s husband, Max, they had to find a piano player quick. So they found Elvis Presley's - Mark, who was it that you found to take the place of Chris Pan when Jimmy Wakely knocked him out? Yes. His rhythm guitar player, Charlie Hodge. Charlie Hodge, Elvis's rhythm guitar player. Of course, we had our charts that he just could follow. But he did more talking than playing our stuff. And you guys sang and we did some tunes. Yes. So we got through it. So does that mean that you were able to meet Elvis many times? No, never did. Oh, never met Elvis. No, never did. So tell me some other people that you performed with. Was it always Shecky Greene? Well, when we were at the Flamingo Delia Reese was there. Her mother would stay in the dressing room. So we did a couple of little spirituals in our show. And Susan would pick up the banjo and she'd sit on a high stool and she'd start playing the banjo. And it was called "Hear Them Bells." It was just really pretty. I mean it was not slow or anything. Right. Upbeat. And every time - I don't know how she knew. But whenever we'd do those two spirituals, she would come out and stand by the side of the stage and listen. And then also at the Riviera it was ~ Ray Anthony. 12 Yeah, Ray Anthony. But I mean the one that -- Lionel Hampton. Lionel Hampton. So Ltonel asked as, he said, at the end of my show I do "When the Saints Come Marching In," will you girls come up on stage and join us? And then they go marching all through the audience. So that was fun. We did that. Wow. So how many years did you perform in Las Vegas? Mark, what do you think? Fifty-seven to '64. So in '64 is when you ended the act? Uh-huh. And everybody felt at the same time that it was time? Yeah. It was a drastic change. That was over. At the time that you were here this city was run by the mob. What was that like? And did you see evidence of that? Okay. The night that we girls - it was our first time at the Riviera. And the Riviera then was a very important hotel. Oh, yes. And that was really nice to work there. So the opening night - and our father was in the audience. So after our first show he said, girls, who's hungry? And I said I am. So Susan and Max, they had somebody they had to talk to. And I don't know where Katie went. So my dad and I, went into the coffee shop and we sat down and ordered. And all of a sudden he coughed and he slumped over on me. And the side of his mouth, his face kind of went down. And I looked at him and I knew he had had a stroke. Oh, and the headliner there was Dick Contino in Concert. So I just thought, oh, my gosh. So the young man that cleaned the tables -- I just said my father's just had a stroke. Stay right here with him. I've got to get my sister. So I ran through the casino --1 mean in there where Dick Contino was performing. I just ran right through. I said Susan, come quick, dad, dad, he's had a stroke. And so anyway, she came. As you call them like we say, the mob boss, he came down. So nice and so helpful. He said, now, you girls — of course, the ambulance came and everything. He said, now, you girls, 13 you take a week off and more if you need it. You will not be docked. In other words, you'll be paid. You take care of your family. Mark, do you remember who it was? Charlie Harrison. Charlie Harrison. So that's an example of why people say it was better when the mob ran it? Yes. But that s what he said. In other words, your family is first. Mark, do you have any stories that you can tell us that show what the city was like when it was run by the mob? Wdl' let me see- The old S^ys -I prefer to call them the old guys. The old guys knew that they would lose money on food, on entertainment, rooms, and maybe breakeven on the booze. But if they could get people in their establishments, at the end of the day they were going to make a profit on their gaming. So they thought very vertically across the board. Then when the corporations came in they thought very structurally. Everything had to pay for itself—food, booze, entertainment, rooms. So under the corporate structure one department didn't have a great concern for the other. We have to survive; that's our goal. Food department has to survive on its own and each one of them had to stand alone. So there was not the broad look about let's all get this going so at the end of the day boss makes money. Our survival is what counts first. Well, that doesn't auger well for the patron.