Jack Howard interview, February 27, 1977: transcript

UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard i An Interview with Jack E. Howard An Oral History Conducted by Michael K. Ericksen Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard ii © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2019 UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard iii The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard iv Abstract On February 27, 1977, collector Michael K. Ericksen interviewed his uncle, schoolteacher, Jack E. Howard, (born June 18th, 1920 in Dewey, Oklahoma) in his home in Overton, Nevada. This interview covers Mr. Howard’s personal experiences and recollections about Southern Nevada. Mr. Howard’s wife, Mrs. Helen Howard, is also present during this interview, which offers a thirty year local overview. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 1 This is Michael Ericksen. I am interviewing Mr. Jack E. Howard, of Overton, Nevada, at his home. The address here is 399— West Perkins. West Perkins. And the date is February 27th, 1977—as, well, first of all, I want to thank you, you know, for the opportunity to interview you. I think probably what the instructor would like to know is somewhat about your early life. Where you were born and when? Alright, I was born in Oklahoma, in 1920. And I lived the early part of my life in Oklahoma, until—I lived in the oil fields of Osage County for the first thirteen years of my life and then we moved to a little farming town on the Arkansas River. I lived there till I finished high school. And then, I spent a year in the CCC Conservation Core. Mm-hmm. Roosevelt. With—in Colorado. I got out of that it was 1940. And things were really kinda hard to get along. The Depression was just barely trying to get over with. Mm-hmm. I went to Wichita, Kansas, and enrolled in a trade school to learn to make airframes for airplanes. And on completion of the training there, they got me a job at Lockee Aircraft Corporation in Burbank, California. And I went out there and worked for about four and a half years till the war was over. After the war was over, I was laid off to—because they just didn’t need all the people. Mm-hmm. And in the meantime, my family: my father, and my mother, and my youngest sister, came out to California while the war was still on. My dad came out to try to get a job in one of the defense plants. And he wasn’t picked up right away. I mean, he didn’t get something to do right away. So UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 2 he and a friend of his, from Oklahoma, heard about a job at a mine in Nevada, close to Las Vegas, the Blue Diamond. Mm-hmm. A gypsum mine out there. So they decided they’d come up and try it. They came up and got a job at the mine and worked there for, oh, three or four weeks or a month, I guess. And the other fella didn’t like it. He didn’t like the desert, so he quit and went back to California. And my dad stayed on. He and mother bought a trailer, and lived out at Blue Diamond. My sister started high school in Las Vegas. Mm-hmm. It was quite a little drive in there for them. How far was that from Las Vegas? I think it’s around thirty—around thirty miles. It may—maybe less. It seemed like quite a ways in because it was dirt roads. Mm-hmm. And— About what year was it? This was in ’43, I think. Mm-hmm. About ’43. My sister didn’t live at Blue Diamond to go to high school. She went into town and stayed with a Mr. and Mrs. Sill. They owned the Sill Drive-In, at Fifth and Charleston. In Las Vegas? In Las Vegas. Huh. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 3 Where the—I believe the steak ground up is there now. There’s a Round Up Steakhouse there now. It’s on the southwest corner of the intersection. Huh. The—where the Sill’s Drive-In was at that time. And she lived with them and worked. Kept house for—helped keep house and babysit for her room and board, while she went to high school at Las Vegas High School. Hm. And she graduated there. And Las Vegas was not a very big town. I was, I was working in—at Lockee down in California, while my folks were up there. And I rode my motorcycle up here from California, one summer to take my vacation, with my folks out at Blue Diamond. And it was really hot. (Laughs) I never saw anything so hot. I’d never been to Nevada before. And they were living there. And. I got my— What kind of home did your folks live in? (Unintelligible) They had a trailer house. Oh did they? They had a—I think it was about a twenty or twenty-one foot trailer house, that they were living in. And on weekends, my sister would come out, just to visit. Uh-huh. But the three of ‘em, when they—when she was there, lived in that small trailer. And at Blue Diamond, I can—when I came up for my vacation, of course, that’s the first of anything I’d seen UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 4 of Nevada, and on the way up, out about, just about thirteen or fourteen miles, before I got to Baker, I broke a piston in my motorcycle. Mm-hmm. In the middle of the night. And it was hot as a—it was really hot. (Laughs) And the motor just got too hot. And I just—I broke a piston. And I stopped at a station out there. It was called Beacon Station. It’s not there anymore. There used to be an aircraft beacon on the hill there. Uh-huh. And this station was right by this beacon. The beacon’s gone now. In Baker? At—well, it was before you get to Baker. Oh. About oh, maybe fifteen or, fifteen or so miles before you get to Baker. Uh-huh. But I—I, it was right close to their where I had the trouble. So I left my motorcycle there, and caught a bus on in to Vegas. Mm-hmm. And I got into Vegas and I didn’t know anything. (Laughs) I didn’t know how to get a hold of ‘em. So I got off there at the bus station on Fremont. And course I looked around the casinos. The old Boulder Club was there. And it was kinda exciting to me because I was just a young fella. I was about mm, what, twenty-three, I guess. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 5 Uh-huh. Twenty-four. And. Well, now, the Union Plaza Hotel wasn’t anywhere around, was it? No, that’s where the—that was where the train station was then. The— Oh, it was? The train station. Hm. The UP Train Station sat where the Union Plaza Hotel is. And just a bunch of train tracks out there. And across the street, of what’s now—it was Main Street then, but just across Main Street was the Overland Hotel. And one called, Sal Sagev. Sal Sagev? Mrs. Howard: Sal Sagev. Or something. It was Las Vegas spelled backwards. Sal Sagev. (Laughs) That was really something. (Laughs) And there was just one or two blocks of casinos there, it seemed like. Well, now was Fremont—? Fermont Street. Was Fremont the main casino street? Fremont was the main casino street. And Main Street run the other direction, across it. Oh. Just like it does now Okay. Yes. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 6 But it seems like there are only about two streets of casinos. Gee. And there were businesses clear out to Sixth Street, where—there was a Sears, Roebuck, and J.C. Penney, and Woolworth’s were strung out along down through there. There was a Sears and Roebuck? There was a Sears and Roebuck. Yes. Mm-hmm. Oh, wonder what happened to it? Well. (Unintelligible) Let’s see, about, I guess fifteen years ago, when the—when Las Vegas started expanding out, south and east, when the Boulevard Shopping Mall was put in. Mm-hmm. Sears and Roebuck bought in out there and put their store out to the shopping mall. And they closed the— Oh. The one on Sixth Street. Hm. I believe the El Cortez Hotel was there. That was down (unintelligible) Now it’s still there, isn’t it? Uh-huh. Yes. It’s still there. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 7 It’s still there. Yes. But it—it was a casino. But that was—it was really way down the street from the rest of them. Mm. So there were a few places of business along there. Quite a few places of business along there. But most of the casinos were in the first and second block. Mm-hmm. Hm. And I stood around about an hour there, waiting to try to find out how to get a hold of my folks. (Laughs) And I—they didn’t have any phone, and I didn’t know how to get ‘em. So I hired a taxi, to take me out to the turnoff to Blue Diamond. And that—there was a little place called, Bob and—Bob and Jeans, I think, the filling station. Mm-hmm. But it was—it was vacant. It was deserted. It was just where the Blue Diamond Road turned off the highway, is all it was. Was there a marker of anything? Well, it was just a filling station. That was it? Yes. It was a dirt road. Just a dirt road turned off. So I took a taxi and went out there. And I had my suitcase, and I started walking to Blue Diamond. I didn’t know how—I didn’t have any idea how far it was. But— (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 8 That’s what allowed me to get there. And I walked about, out toward Arden, I walked about oh, three of four miles I guess. And of all things to have in Nevada, a summer rain storm came out. I—you know, you don’t see much rain in Nevada. Uh-huh. But a summer rain storm came up and I got wet. (Laughs) (Laughs) It just wet me down good. But I just kept walking. And about three and a half miles I met my dad coming into town. Your dad was coming into town? He just—he was driving into town. And he had an old—thirty-six Oldsmobile that he had driven out from Oklahoma. (Laughs) So he picked me up and we went back. And I spent a week at the Blue Diamond, and I really enjoyed it. We went out to—there’s a ranch out there. I don’t remember now. But I think they call it the Crop Ranch, afterwards. But at that time, it was owned by a fellow, an old-timer from Arkansas. His name was—I can’t even remember his name. But he was one of the partners of Lum and Amber, a radio— Oh. And my mother knew him. Hm. She had known him in Arkansas. Hm. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 9 Just you know, they weren’t real good friends or anything. Uh-huh. But she had known him in Arkansas. And we went out to that old ranch, to that ranch, and just looked around. Because it’s kind of an oasis in the desert. But he wasn’t home at the time. So I didn’t get to meet him. But I can’t remember whether he was Lum or Abner but he was—he was one of them. Huh. And my mother she would remember his name. But I don’t. Huh. But anyway, that was one of the highlights. And of course, then we went into town, I think once, to see the casinos. Mm-hmm. But I really wasn’t interested in the casinos. I’m too tight. (Laughs) Jack, what about the mine, out at Blue Diamond? Ah. I quite enjoyed it. I’ve got to go through the mine and everything. And it’s the first, first I’d ever seen a mine, even. Or— Well, now, what kind of mine was it, Jack? It’s a gypsum mine. Oh. And they mine gypsum, and make wallboard. And they had a big wallboard plant. And the plants still out there. They still make wallboard out there. Well, was it an underground mine, or tunnel? UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 10 It’s an underground mine. And it was up on top of a plateau, way up high on a plateau. Hm. Above the—where the mine—I mean, where the plant itself was. Mm-hmm. And you had to drive around—and you still do, I’m sure—had to drive quite a ways around it to climb up to it. And we went up and went in the mine. And it was quite interesting to me, the—they made the mine, the cut the gypsum out, they’d leave posts, that they—rock that they just wouldn’t mine. Mm-hmm. Oh, maybe as big as a room. Ten by ten or twelve by twelve. And they just mine all around it and then go on around it and to hold up the roof, hold up the rock. And. No internal support other than the ten by ten? Well, I don’t remember too much about it, ‘cause it’s been thirty years ago, since then. Uh-huh. This was in 1943. Uh-huh. And so, I don’t remember that much about it. Forty-two or forty-three. But anyway, I really enjoyed it. Huh. So I went back—I got on the bus, went back to this little town—this station. Uh-huh. Beacon Station. And I got my motorcycle and had the man put—the man there put on his trailer, and hauled it down to Barstow, not Barstow—San Bernardino, for me. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 11 Huh. To a motorcycle shop and they fixed it and I got back—I went on back to work. Mm-hmm. When my vacation was over. But that was my first taste of that. And I remember coming in from Blue Diamond, after we—after we got on the highway at this Bob and Jean’s restaurant, it was then a little café and a service station. Mm-hmm. But it was vacant at that time. But from there, coming into town, just nothing, just desert. (Laughs) And the first thing we came to was a—I think it was the El Rancho Vegas Casino—I mean, motel, hotel. It was— Mm. Way out of town. It was? Way out of town. Yes. It was out in the desert. Well, now that’s the hotel that used to be right across from the Sahara, isn’t it? Ah. The Sahara Hotel, the one that—? Well, it’s the old El Rancho Vegas. That vacant lot. Yes. The first really resort hotel, I think that was in Nevada. And it was—it sure looked like a plush place. (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 12 You went by that and it was more desert. And I went, “Why would they build anything like that so far out in the desert?” And the next thing we came to is I remember, was a Shell Station, at the, at a kind of a Y, where Main Street split off and Fifth Street went on into town. Mm-hmm. Yes. Okay. I know where that is. And—the Shell Station is no longer there. There’s a, some kind of food, fast food restaurant there now I think, or a restaurant. Mm-hmm. But right there at that Y was a Shell Station and that was the first habitation in Las Vegas, as I remember then. Hm. And it was quite a ways out of town. Then we went past some more desert before we finally got into town. Gosh. But I—I just, I remember thinking that Shell Station was sure a long ways out of town. (Laughs) So that was my first experience of Nevada. My dad quit at Blue Diamond and went out to Henderson, Nevada, and went to work in a plant out there. The—I believe it was Basic Magnesium. They called in Basic Magnesium out there. But he was working for a different mine. He worked for the people that run the Three Kids Mine. Oh. And he was a stationary engineer. He run the steam boiler— Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 13 For them out there. And he was close to the lake and he liked to fish and he bought him a boat. And he and mother used to fish when—on their days off. Well, he got into a disagreement with them about the way they were free loading on war contracts or something. Uh-huh. He didn’t feel like they were really giving the government their monies worth for what they were getting from the government. Mm-hmm. And he said something about. And they said, “Well, if you don’t like it, you can quit.” And so he says, I will. (Laughs) And he did. From Henderson? At Henderson, yes. Uh-oh. And they were still living in trailer. They had taken the trailer out there to live in. So, he went up to Overton to see what he could find up there. Because it was close to the lake. Mm-hmm. And he still had his boat and he wanted to fish. (Laughs) And he got a job— Yes. He got a job with one of the sand processing companies up there. The Nunn Sand Mine. The Nunn Sand Processing Company, or something like that. Anyways, is the Nunn Company, N-U-N-N. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 14 And he went to work for them, running the machinery in their mill. And he enjoyed fishing. So on his days off, he’d go fishing. And he didn’t like to fish by himself, so different people ‘round town, he’d say, “Well, let’s go fishing together, today.” And— Mm-hmm. Eventually, he worked into the job of taking people fishing, instead of working. People would come to town and they’d want to go fishing, and he couldn’t—he said, “Well, I gotta work, today.” So one of them said, “Well, I’ll pay you whatever you get at work, if you’ll take me out.” And he says, “Well, okay, I’d rather fish than work.” Mm-hmm. Is this in Overton? This is in Overton, yes. He— Well, where did they go fishing? In Lake Mead. Oh! See, Lake Mead, Lake Mead went up one arm towards Las Vegas. And another arm comes up towards Overton. And when he was living at Henderson, he fished on the Las Vegas Wash arm. Oh. I see. So when he came up here, he was—he was able to fish and still on Lake Mead. Mm-hmm. It’s only about twelve to fifteen miles to the lake from here. Hm. Well, he got quite a few people that would come up and would want him to take ‘em out. And there was no charter boats, hardly anything to rent here, to go fishing. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 15 And he just gradually worked himself into a job, and so many people kept asking, “Well, take me fishing, instead of working, today.” That he just quit working and went to fishing steady. I got me another vacation about that time. And so I came up to Overton. Mm-hmm. For that vacation. He was still working sand mill at that time. And I stayed here, oh, I—what happened, I was in a motorcycle accident. I was driving—I was driving (Laughs) down— On the way back? No. From the first vacation? No. I was still riding my—riding my motorcycle to work, and things like that. And down in Los Angeles, on—one day before I went to work, I was driving down Santa Monica Boulevard, and a truck, pick-up truck, without any front bumper, ran a stop sign, and hit me. And his—the, no front, with no front bumper, the spring shackles came out. Oh. And they just went right a straddle of my leg luckily, and didn’t hit my leg. It just pulverized my motorcycle and knocked me clear crossed the street, and broke my knee. So I was in the hospital for, oh, two or three weeks. And then, I came up to Overton to spend some recuperating time. With no motorcycle? With—well, oh, my motorcycle was a total lost. I came to Overton and stayed with my folks and it’s still in this little twenty-one foot trailer. (Unintelligible) (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 16 Here and they were living in it. And they had parked next to a little cabin. A one room—no, I guess it’s a two room cabin with a bathroom, that a Mrs. Era Jones, she had a home and then she had four or five little cabins that she rented out. Mm-hmm. And so they—they pulled their trailer in beside this cabin. And used a trailer for a bedroom. Mm-hmm. And then, they had a bedroom in the cabin, and a—the dining room, living room, and the bathroom. Okay. Oh. So that’s where they were living while dad was working out here. Mm-hmm. So I came up and stayed with ‘em about three months until I could get around well enough to go back to work. So that must’ve been about 1949? This was in ’45, I think. Oh, was it? Uh-huh. Oh. Forty-four or forty-five. So it was forty-three then you went to the Blue Diamond? Yes. Oh, okay. I see. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 17 And—so, when I—then, when I came up here, he was still working sand mill. ‘Cause I remember going out to the plant, you know. Mm-hmm. And going around in it. The reason I remember it was because I had trouble climbing the ladders and things with the stiff leg. Hm. See, I’d had my knee broken. Mm-hmm. And I couldn’t bend it. Oh. And just the knee cap. Mm-hmm. Is all, was broken. The knee cap was broken. Not the joint itself. Mm-hmm. But he and I would go fishing on weekends. And some days when dad was working, my mother and I would take the boat and go fishing. Mm-hmm. And this was one of the first—first opportunities I had to see some of the history of Nevada. Because in the upper end of the lake here, before the lake came up, there was an archaeological site on the—that was going to be covered up with the water when the impoundment came up. Mm-hmm. That several uni—I don’t know whether it was several universities. But anyway, a university came out here and they had quite a dig there, before the water came up. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 18 Yes. There’s some mention of that in our history book. The one we’re reading. Is there? Yes. Well, I wanted to see that. So we talked to some of the people here in Overton that knew where it was. Uh-huh. Chic Perkins. He’s the—well, I don’t know if he’s the curator out there or not, at the museum or not. I believe he’s the curator at the Lost City Museum. He had been on the site and helped with the dig and everything. Mm-hmm. And I went and talked to him, and found out where it was. And it was on the other side of the lake. So we—mother and I took the boat, and went over to that little arm of the lake. Mm-hmm. Where this was and we got out and went up and the lake happened to be low enough that we could find, we found the site. Mm-hmm. And of course, it wasn’t much—we couldn’t tell much about it. Because the water had covered it. And then, gone down again. And it just looked like old foundations, I mean just the shape of foundations where they had found the site. Hm. Where they dug, you know. But it was interesting to me because I’d, I’d never seen anything like this. And these old southwest Indian ruins are small. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 19 Because the people didn’t build very big houses. Yes. And I was quite—but I was quite interested in it. And—so this was my first taste of Southern Nevada, ancient history. Mm-hmm. Later years, after—after I came to live up here, I found some other places over on that same side of the lake that were of interest to me. Hm. But— Well, now— This is several years later. Is the fact that Lake Mead was filled, is that what destroyed it? Well. Or were they gonna raise the level of Lake Mead— They were— To start with? No. When they—when they put the dam in— Uh-huh. I mean when they started the dam, they knew how far the water was gonna back up. Oh, I see. Okay. And they—so all the—I think this is standard procedure—all the sites that might be archeologically important, have to be checked out. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 20 To see what they can find before it gets covered up and ruined. Oh. So they— Okay, yes. Right. So they did this. And it’s a matter of history. Nevada history that this was done. Right. And all of the artifacts and a lot of the information was put in this Lost City Museum. Oh, I see. I thought maybe because the water level raised some, it was gonna destroy it? No. They— But it was the fact they even put water in it. (Unintelligible) Mm-hmm. Okay. They knew what it was gonna do, so they got ready for it ahead of time. Mm-hmm. Well, after I got able to go back to work—I went back and I worked until the end of the war. Mm-hmm. And by that time, my dad had quit working and had gone to work fishing. (Laughs) Fulltime fisherman. Fulltime. (Laughs) And when I got laid off at the end of the war, I was at loose ends. And my dad says, “Well, why don’t you come up and fish?” He says, “There’s more people coming in dock, all the time, wanting to fish.” UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 21 Mm-hmm. And I didn’t have much money, but dad advanced me the money, and I bought a boat. Oh. Down in Los Angeles, I bought a boat and towed it up here. And he and I fished— Mm-hmm. Together. I—was tryna think just what time of the year that was. But I can’t—I can’t remember. It seemed like it was in the winter time, though. Mm-hmm. And the fishing was really good. And we got some people from—that would come to the casinos in Las Vegas and wanted to go fishing. They’d stay in Las Vegas and they’d come out here and go fishing with us. Oh. The—that year I—see, I believe this was ’46 now, ’46 or ’47. The—one of the big hotels over there, a new one had come in since the El Rancho, the Frontier. Hm. They’ve called the Last Frontier. Okay. They held a big promotion on fishing that year. And they came out here to see what was available, as the way of charter boats and things. Mm-hmm. And they booked my dad and I both up solid. Guaranteed us, our fee. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 22 If we wouldn’t book anybody else and they would—they said, we’ll send you the people. We’ll have the people come in here that want to go fishing. And we’ll send you the people out there to go fishing. (Laughs) Wow. “We’ll pay you and they’ll pay us, or if they want to pay you then we won’t have to pay you.” Oh. We had that kind of a deal, see. Mm-hmm. If the person paid us then they didn’t pay us. But if we didn’t—if we had a day that they didn’t send anybody, they paid us, and we didn’t have to worry about turning a party down. Mm-hmm. How long did this last for? Oh. This was only two or three weeks, I think. Uh-huh. Or maybe even less. I don’t remember it. Seemed to me like it was—I know it was a real financial advantage. There were days that we didn’t go. Uh-huh. But it was in May, I think and May is usually a good month. Mm-hmm. But what it did, it gave me enough—it got me far enough ahead that I got the loan paid off on my boat. Mm-hmm. That my dad had made me, to buy my boat. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 23 And I also found out that the boat wasn’t exactly what I wanted to charter with. Mm-hmm. It didn’t—it wasn’t convenient enough. Mm-hmm. So while the fishing was good, a lad came out that saw the boat and liked it. And she said, “Oh, I’d like to buy the boat.” And said, “Would you sell it?” And I said, “Sure.” And so I sold the boat, and I went to Los Angeles, and bought me another one. A twenty-one foot with a braoder beam and more room in the cockpit. Gosh. To—for the people to fish in. Mm-hmm. Well, twenty-one foot is not really that big a boat. But it’s—it makes it more comfortable. Oh yes. Anyway, I upgraded my boat a little bit. And brought it up here, and fished with that. Mm-hmm. And my dad and I—my dad had a twenty-seven foot converted gar wood. Ooh. He had built a little cabin on it. Uh-huh. And he and I fished. And this went along for, oh, till about well in the fifties. And then, 1953, my dad died of a heart attack. (Tape one ends) (Tape begins midsentence)—Grade nine, I—I met one of the schoolteachers here. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 24 Mm-hmm. And we got married. And. Helen? Helen. Hm. And she was—she’d come down from Northern Utah to teach in the schools here and we met and decided to go it together. Mm-hmm. Well, through the years from fift—to about fifty-three to fifty-six, they were pretty lean years. The lake went real low. Hm. And the fishing—sometimes it was real good and sometimes it wasn’t. But the people—I don’t know, the Korean War, was just ready to start. Or just what the situation was. But there seemed to be a lot of money and people were buying their own boats. And they bought—a lot of these new electric start boats. Oh. Out boards came out. And had a lot of competition from private—I mean, you know, private fishermen. Mm-hmm. So the fishing business, really wasn’t very good. (Laughs) And schoolteachers are required occasionally, to go back to school, every so often. Go back to school and what they call, recertify. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 25 Take some classes, and renew their certificates. Mm-hmm. Well, in 1955, my wife had to go to school to recertify, and we went up to Provo, Utah. Mm-hmm. To BYU, and at the time, she was—she was teaching what they call, the ED District Number One. The Nevada— Here in Overton? Here in Overton. And the school district was just, Moapa Valley, which is just, what Overton, is in a place called, Moapa Valley. Uh-huh. And ED District Number One comprised: Moapa Valley and Virgin Valley, which is about forty-six miles east. Oh. North and east, toward Salt Lake. Uh-huh. And the district headquarters were here in Overton. Mm-hmm. And she was teaching for them. And at that time the state school had a program where after a person had taught so long, and was a qualified teacher— Mm-hmm. They could get a life certificate. And my wife, when she went back to school that year, to recertify, I suggested that she get enough credits to recertify with a life certificate. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 26 And she was a little reluctant. She says, “Well.” She says, “I don’t think I’m gonna teach very long.” Because we had been married what three or four years. Mm-hmm. But she was still teaching because things were just—weren’t that plentiful as far as money was concerned. But I talked her into certifying for a life certificate. And then, I think she was one of the last people to get one in the state. Hm. I don’t know about the other, other areas of the state. But she was one of the last ones in Nevada, to get a life certificate in this area. Mm-hmm. And— Mm-hmm. Because right—not too long after that they— They. The next year they discontinued them. Well, while we were at—at Provo, that summer. Mm-hmm. When she was going to school and I was babysitting, we had three children. Mm-hmm. Four children. We had four children. And a friend of ours, in the schools, a friend of my wife’s had taught second grade. She was teaching first grade and the second grade teacher, she was up recertifying at the same time. And they, the two ladies talked to myself and the other ladies husband about going to school. Mm-hmm. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 27 And I said, “Oh.” I said, “I’d never been to college at all.” I just graduated from high school. Mm-hmm. And I’d been out of high school about twenty years. Uh-huh. By then. And I just didn’t think I could go back to school. Uh-huh. But she talked me through it, talked to me about it. And says, “Oh, why don’t you? And finally we decided that I would try it—the next summer. Mm-hmm. So in 1956, we went back to Provo, and I enrolled in the BYU for a load of classes. Mm-hmm. And this other ladies husband enrolled at the same time with me. I hated to go in by myself. (Laughs) (Laughs) And here I was thirty-seven years old and—or thirty-six years old and just going to college and I’d been out of school since I was sixteen. Uh-huh. So I couldn’t see it hardly. But he said, “Well.” He said, “I’ll take some courses.” And I said, “Well, okay, I’ll take some courses.” And so, the two ladies babysat the kids, and took care of the houses and he and I went to school. And I says, “Well.” I says, “I don’t know how long I’ll go.” But I says, “If I do alright on my classes, I’ll keep going to school.” Mm-hmm. Well, I got through the summer with pretty good, pretty good grades. UNLV University Libraries Jack E. Howard 28 Mm-hmm. I didn’t have too much trouble with it. So when we came back to Overton for school to start. Linn and I, Linn Slade. Mm-hmm. The other fella and I, went up to Cedar City and enrolled at the—I know what it was—it was called CSU then. College of Southern Utah. Mm-hmm. And we enrolled up there. Hm. In regular winter session. And we drove back and forth on weekends. Hm. All winter and went to school. And my wife taught school down here, and— Mm-hmm. And helped put me through. Well, I went to school up there two winters at— Two winters. CSU. Mm-hmm. Two full—two full winter—fall, winter, spring, quarters. Mm-hmm. A