Transcript of interview with Nancy Horden by Ward Murashige, February 26, 1980

UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden i An Interview with Nancy Horden An Oral History Conducted by Ward Murashige Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden ii © Ralph Roske Oral History Project on Early Las Vegas University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2019 UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden iii The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden iv Abstract On February 26, 1980, collector Ward Murashige interviewed Nancy Horden (born February 7th, 1921 in Las Vegas, Nevada) in James Dickenson Library at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. The interview covers Nancy’s family background, and life in Nevada, including home life, recreation, and hobbies. During this interview, Nancy also discusses local development, and the social and environmental changes that have occurred over the span of her lifetime in Las Vegas, Nevada. UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden 1 Here with me today is Nancy Deverell Horden. The date is February 26th, 1980. The place is the James Dickenson Library on the UNLV Campus. My name is Ward Murashige of 3955 Sunset Street, Apartment 284, Las Vegas. The project is Oral Interview of the Life of a Las Vegas Old-Timer. Mrs. Horden, are you a native of Nevada? Yes. I am. Were your parents born here? No. They came here at a very early year. What—? Oh. Why did your parents come here? Well, my father’s mother and his two brothers moved to Las Vegas from Butte, Montana. Because of the severe winters, which was so hard on my father. He had had pneumonia numerous times and the doctor had told his mother to—she simply had to get him to a drier climate. So this was the reason that they moved to Las Vegas. Okay. How many brothers and sisters do you have? I have one sister, Catherine Johnson. And I have a brother George Deverell. And I had a brother Wallace Deverell that we lost in the Second World War. Oh, that’s too bad. Okay. You found a difference between a family now and then? Like first in family size? Well, no. Not according to my families. Good. It was just about the same. We’ve all had just about the same amount of children. And having lived here all my life, we still have the same lifestyles just about. Sounds good. UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden 2 We did when I was a child, other than you move at a faster pace now, I think. (Laughs) The children do. We made our own fun in those days. We didn’t have everything like they do know. I see. Who—who used to work in your family? Did your whole family have to go out and find a job? No. Just my father worked. He worked as a conductor on the Union Pacific Railroad. Started to work there in the year 1914, and worked until 1959 when he retired. Then his run on the Union Pacific Railroad was between here and Salt Lake City, at that time. Okay. Did your brothers or sisters go to high school or college? They both graduated and my sister, too, from the Las Vegas High School, which at that time was the only high school in Las Vegas, and my sister after graduating went right to work, at a grocery store located on the corner of First and Fremont Street, which was called the Mesquite Grocery. And that’s now the beginning of the Golden Nugget. And then, my brother George after graduating, he had a scholarship and was to go to a university in Washington. I can’t remember which one now. But on his way, he got sidetracked and stopped at the Reno— (Laughs) On his trip on the train and decided to go to the University of Nevada at Reno, instead of— Going to Washington? Going to Washington. And he went there for two years and that was the extent of his college education. And my brother Gab, after—that was his nickname. His real name was Wallace. After he graduated from high school, he enlisted right away, in the army, for Foreign Service and was UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden 3 sent to the Philippine islands. And was due to be released January of ’42, it was 1941, in December I believe. Mm-hmm. December 7th of— Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor and the war broke out and he was taken prisoner from the (unintelligible) and of course, due to malnutrition and (unintelligible) set in and my brother died there in the prison camp. That’s really too bad. What did your folks do for recreation? Well, in the early years, let’s see, I can recall that there was a dancehall up on Fremont Street, I’m no quite sure as to the location now. And on Saturday nights and special occasions, they always had great dances. (Laughs) And everybody would come to them. Sounds good. And on the Fourth of July, why, that was always a big day for all of us, this is when Lorenzi Park was built. And Mr. Lorenzi would have great fireworks soon as the sun would go down. And that would be sort of like a picnic for our family. Mother would fix a lunch and we’d go there for the day and get to go swimming and then wait for the fireworks. And there was two places that we could go swimming in the summer. First one was called Lads, which would be located now I believe at the corner of Eleventh and Fremont Street. And the other one was located on the One Hundred Block on North Las Vegas Boulevard North, and that was called the Mermaid Swimming Pool. UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden 4 (Laughs) Oh yes. So we’d go out to those places and go swimming. Did you guys ever go up to the lake, every now and then? Out to the lake in those days, no. No? It was too treacherous. There wasn’t a lake then; it was the Colorado River. The manmade lake wasn’t formed then until after the dam was built, which was called Lake Mead now. Mm-hmm. Did your folks ever do some snow-skiing or anything? Well, we never had that years ago. Uh-uh? (Laughs) No. (Laughs) There was of course, Mount Charleston but it was kind of treacherous to get up there in the winter time. And in our early years, we didn’t have and automobile, so we couldn’t do those things. I see. What kind of house did you folks live in? Well, my mother and father, after he started to work for the Union Pacific Railroad, the railroad owned homes that they sold to their employees. And my father was able to get one when I was—that would have been about 1922. I was born in 1921. And we moved to a Union Pacific Railroad house in the Five Hundred Block on South Fourth Street. And I can remember, as a small child, when we lived there, and then sit out on the front porch, I’d look out and see nothing but desert. Mm-hmm. That was just about as far as we were built up at that time. Just desert. ‘Kay. Obviously there wasn’t any air-conditioning then, so how was your—? UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden 5 No. House cooled? Well, you know, my mother would keep it closed up, early in the morning until about noon, every— Just closed all the windows and the doors? The windows, the doors, and the blinds or the shades were all drawn, to help hold in the coolness from what we had through the night. And then, after that of course, you had to open up. (Laughs) Then I can recall, it must have been very difficult for her with the cooking. Because in the winter time, we had coal and woods stoves to cook on. But in the summertime, she was really one of the fortunate ones. She had a small little gas stove. It was out on this small green screened in porch, off of the kitchen. So that in the summertime, she would do the cooking out there. And it wasn’t quite as hot. Oh, that’s good. Yes. When I came here, too, I noticed that a lot of people put stones under their (unintelligible) or rocks. That came later. I don’t know the reason for that really. Yes. Really seemed sort of strange, you know. Yes. Uh-huh. These rocks (unintelligible) I think it’s sort of phased out now. You don’t see it as much on the new homes being built. How—how is your food preserved? Well, now, in the summertime, and of course, the winter, that was before we had an electric refrigerator, we had ice boxes. And the iceman would come around you had a card or—that you UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden 6 would place someplace outside your kitchen window, or that (unintelligible) always came through the alleys. And on it would say, how many pounds of ice you were going to need. And then, you would just bring it and come and put it in your icebox. Mm. And that’s how you preserved your—for your cold foods. Did you folks had like people come around to peddle food, that you just can—they’ll come around with a wagon, and you just could purchase food from there? Yes. We did. And I used to love that. In the summertime, we did have somebody that came around with fresh vegetables, with a horse drawn cart. And you could hear him coming and mother would go out and buy things from him. And I especially remembered in the summertime I used to love that. There was a Mexican man that had made a little wagon that he pushed. And he sold hot tamales. (Laughs) Oh. When they—they—I’ve never tasted a tamale that tasted like that. (Laughs) Since. A special touch. Mm-hmm. Was—was everything in walking distance at that time? We walked everywhere. We did. Mm-hmm. Oh, yes. Yes. If I didn’t walk, I roller-skated. That was— Roller-skated? UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden 7 Oh yes. We all did when we were kids. Oh yes? Okay. Like where did you folks get all this fresh produce from? ‘Cause you know, it won’t grow in the sand, I guess. Ah, well, most of it was shipped in, in those days, by the Union Pacific—by the train. Until—then afterwards, it was of course, brought in by the refrigerated trucks that bring them all the time from California. Uh-huh. Mostly vegetables. Some from Utah. Oh? Okay then. After high school you said you entered a job and would you like to say something about what you did? Well, I didn’t work too long after—high school, I worked in a drugstore, which was called the Boulder Drugstore and it was located in the same block where the Golden Nugget is now. And I worked there for two years and then got married. And I’ve never had to hold a job down since then. Was your husband born in Nevada? Yes. He was born here, too, in 1960. But some of his life he lived in Los Angeles, and most of his schooling was in Los Angeles. But his father’s business was here. His father owned and operated the Las Vegas Club, which is now the—I believe it’s the Bingo Club uptown, I’m not too sure—on Fremont Street. (Laughs) The One Hundred Block on Fremont Street. Okay. Yes. I heard that your husband side of the family, has something to do with the National Hotel. Could you tell me something about that? UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden 8 Well, that was through marriage. His sister was married to Johnny (Unintelligible) and Johnny’s folks owned and operated the National Hotel. And after the death of Johnny’s father, why then, he took over the management of the hotel, until he sold it, and moved to Newport Beach, California. He was a pharmacist; still is. In fact, he owned the Boulder Drugstore. Oh yes? At one time. And when his father became critically ill, he had to give up the drugstore and take over the hotel. What does your husband do? My husband works at the Barberry Coast Casino. He’s always been in gambling. He started to—work in Las Vegas in oh, about 1938—in the Boulder Club, which was where the Mint is now. And then, also worked in the Las Vegas Club, which was his father’s club. And he’s worked in numerous ones. He worked—he opened—when the Sands Hotel first opened, he opened that, to work there for thirteen years. And then, worked at the International, Hilton International when it first opened, and worked there until the Royal Inn Casino opened on Convention Center. And after that the owners of the Royal Inn Casino, Michael Gunn and Frank Today built the new Barberry Coast. And that’s where he is now. Oh. How did you come around to meeting him? Well, we’ve always known of his family and my family being such old-timers, why, he used to come to my house when he was a young boy and I was a little girl. (Laughs) Of course, I didn’t think much about it at that time. And we just got together in later years— Oh. And we’re married. UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden 9 Okay. I guess after living here that long, you have seen a lot of major changes here. Oh, I should say, I have. Does—like, could you tell me something about the pollution? How has it changed? Or how is it increased? Well. Really. It has increased of course. But I—this is due to all the progress at Las Vegas, and the growth. It just evidently comes with it. So many cars now, where we never used to have that. In fact, you always say a clear blue sky, when I was a child, growing up. One thing I do miss now that—in the summertime, we spent an awful lot of time in the evenings outside because it was cooler. And to look up and see the sky full of stars. (Laughs) You don’t see that. Yes. Anymore. Really. How have you seen the economical changes here? Like—like have you seen a lot of businesses really expand a lot? Yes. I have. In many areas. Hm. And it seems to go on. Seems to be no stopping to it. (Unintelligible) I—I believe that, before a lot of things were family run. True. They were. Do you find that it’s sort of phasing out now? UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden 10 Oh, yes. In the old families like the Von Tobel family, having the lumber company, and not too long ago, they sold out their business. Mm. And I can’t really think right now. But there are lots of them that did own their own business. And the Ronzone’s had the department store and they have sold out now, which has become Diamonds. That’s another old time family. So is the Von Tobel name, is this being carried on to (unintelligible)? Right. They don’t own it anymore. Oh, too bad. Okay. Do you—do you find the people that come here, they have a different attitude? Or like they—they don’t really care about living here. They just come here for a couple years and they just go to someplace else? No. I find that most people that come here, they like it here, and want to stay. I think—what about your neighbors? Do you really know your neighbors pretty good? In my area yes. Because we’ve lived there for so long. We live in Huntridge and have lived in the same house now for thirty-five years. So there’s still a lot of those that moved there just about the same time that Jack and I did. Okay. But did you find that the people are friendlier back then than now? Oh. Certainly. (Laughs) You knew everybody. And when you went shopping, and went in the stores, you knew everyone, all the clerks and it was a closer relationship. I miss that. (Unintelligible) You never see anybody that you know anymore. It’s very rare that you do. UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden 11 Do you find everybody in more of a rush now? Too much so. Yes. We don’t stop to enjoy hardly anything anymore. Hm. So everybody just rushes to work and rushes back, right? Rush, that’s right. Okay. You must’ve seen the Strip develop from nothing to something. Yes. I did. It’s quite marvelous. I remember the first one that was out there, I saw very long ago. It was called the Frontier Club, long, long, time ago. I can’t (unintelligible) late thirties, I think that was when it was opened. And then, the El Rancho Hotel and Casino was really the first big hotel built on the Strip. Then after that, one after another, they started to come. Hm. Really. That sounds good. What about Downtown? Has it changed or has—I guess—? Oh. It’s entirely different than when I was a little girl growing up. Course it’s all really the gambling element now. But that’s where all of our business stores were when I was a little girl. The grocery stores, everything, the drugstores was all located on Fremont Street. That’s where you had to do your shopping. And what hotels we had were all located on Fremont Street, our gas stations, everything was localized right there. So that was the whole (Unintelligible)? Yes. We had our two theatres. We had one on Fremont Street and then, which was the El Portal Theater, still there now. And then we had another one on the Two Hundred Block, South Second Street, and that was called the Palace Theater. In the beginning, in the summertime, it was so hot, we did have an open air theater. That was called the, mm—Air Drone, I believe it was. And I can especially remember my—they had trees that formed a (unintelligible) on one side of this open air theater. And in the summertime, (unintelligible) my brothers would climb up in the tree and get a free picture show. (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden 12 (Laughs) Over the wall. I bet. And this one night, why, we were all at home, other than my oldest brother George, and about ten o’clock here came the local doctor, Dr. Hewittson, and he had my brother George with him and George’s arm was in a cast and in a sling. (Laughs) It seems he must have gotten excited and fell out of the tree. Oh. (Laughs) And luckily, Dr. Hewittson was attending the show that night and he just took him right, he knew who he was. (Laughs) And took him right over to his office. That’s (unintelligible) And set his arm and brought him home. So, I guess there’s not many stores left here from then? No. Hm. No. No, no—all the old time store—all that is gone. Really, I guess Woolworth’s haven’t been up in that area of Las Vegas for so long. Mm-hmm. Since the new shopping centers. But I believe Woolworth’s would be—it’s there now, still. Okay. UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden 13 And an old—really old clothing—men’s clothing store is—they’re now gonna close, too, which is called Allen and Hansen’s. I’m sorry to see that happen. That’s too bad. The—did you enjoy seeing the building of all these new hotels and all these lights? Yes. In a way. I did. It was exciting to see all this take place in Las Vegas. I know it especially was, for my mother and dad. When they first came here. Because people lived in tents at that time. And my grandmother’s hotel at that time, was a very small one. So it was for them, to see all this develop. Got you. Has the weather changed a lot? Not so much in temperature, I don’t believe, other than that in the summertime, we have a lot more humidity now, that we didn’t used to have when I was a child. And I’m sure that’s due to the progress of Las Vegas, the growing; all the cars and lawns and swimming pools and vegetation, which we didn’t have years ago. Did you—did your family ever take a vacation because the heat of summer? Not my family, too much. There were those that lived here, that did go away for the summer. They’d go to the coast—to the beach or in the—quite a few families had homes, in Mount Charleston and they would go up there for the—two or three of the months. But some summers, my mother would take we children and we’d travel to Salt Lake City, where she had two sisters that lived there, and we’d spend a month there but—really wasn’t much cooler up there than it is here. (Laughs) So we didn’t—really didn’t get out of the heat. But no we didn’t do too much travelling when I was a child. UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden 14 Hm. We just stayed right here. Was the winter extremely cold? No more so than they are now. As some winters would be colder than others. We don’t have snow too often. I can remember though, that when I was a little girl, that it did snow, once or twice. Snow, huh? That was a great treat. It snowed in the Valley? Yes. Oh yes? Yes. (Laughs) We had snow here around a year ago, I believe, yes. We do. Oh yes? Oh yes. And quite a little blizzard. (Laughs) (Laughs) Okay. What about the air travel in here? What do you feel about the air travel? It’s fantastic. I—I can’t see how they can fit so many planes into that airport. I can’t either. (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden 15 Now when I think about my first flight was—in 1942, when my first daughter was born and she was quite ill. And I had to fly to Salt Lake City to a pediatrician. And the airport then was well it would be located where Nellis Airport, Nellis Air Base is now. That’s where the smaller airport was. And the planes were so different. (Laughs) Yes. From then. Yes. (Unintelligible) Yes. Recently, they was talking about drilling for oil in the Red Rock area. I’ve read about that. I don’t know too much, that I can say. That would really be something, wouldn’t that, if they found oil here? (Laughs) But—do you feel like this would be disturbing nature? Yes. In a way I hope that they don’t. Yes. Because they’ve been up there once and I’ve seen all these, that rock formation is pretty neat. It is, it’s beautiful. Yes. And—for someplace like Nevada, where it’s mostly desert. It would be kind of a waste to— Yes. Have that taken away. I agree with you. It would. Hm. You—(unintelligible) missile testing and all that? You mean when the—they, the bombs went off out at— Yes. They tested in the desert. UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden 16 Mercury. Out at—what do they call it? Frenchman’s Flats? Out that way? Yes. I should say. Yes. It used to seem like nearly every other day you’d see that huge mushroom forming up in the sky. Did you ever think anything about it could harm you in anyway? I didn’t so much then. But I do now. I don’t think I’d like to see anything like that again. Or when they were such large bombs, feel the shaking of the house and see the chandeliers shaking back and forth. That’s too bad. No. I—I don’t want to see that anymore. Hm. Yes. Just thinking of the—building the missile sight of Nevada (unintelligible) Yes. I read about that. How do you feel about it? Do you want it? Or? I’m really not too knowledgeable about it. I don’t know why we have to have such terrible things. I wish we didn’t have to live in a world that has to manufacture them. Hm. Can’t think of anything? Can’t think of a question. No. As you mentioned earlier about having a family, what—how old are your children now? Yes. I have four children. Janet is thirty-seven years old, and she’s married to Charles Holey, who is a battalion chief for the North Las Vegas Fire Department. And they have two children now. They did have three. We lost our Kenneth when he was two years old. And Jane that (unintelligible) Charlie has Carol, who’s twelve years old. And now Danny, who’s seven years old. And then our second daughter is Judith McCain, her husband is Don. And he’s in the executive—executive department of the Central Telephone Company. And they too had three UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden 17 children but now have two. We lost Michelle last year in August. She was born with a very serious congenital heart condition. And had been, had surgery when she was seven years old, back at Rochester, New York—uh, Rochester, Minneapolis, I mean. And then she had a massive heart attack last August and she was fifteen years old. And now they have Maureen, whose twelve years old. And they have Donny, who’s also seven years old. (Tape one ends) I think I forgot to tell you how our Judy is. She’s thirty-six years old. Oh yes. Alright. And our Catherine is thirty-four years old, and she’s married to Michael Arthur, and they live in Anaheim, California. California, I mean. And they own a Togo’s Eatery—is the name of their business. And they have a son Patrick, who attends the Saint Catherine’s Military Academy, in Anaheim, California. And then, we have a son Barry Horden, who is eighteen years old, who will graduate from the Bishop Gorman High School, this year. And we were very thrilled last week, he received a letter from Loyola Marymount University in California. But he’s been accepted into college for the fall, and that’s my family. Hm. So then, you have three of them living in Las—Nevada? I do. Yes. I see. The daughter, Catherine that lives in Anaheim, this Togo’s Eatery is a fairly new fast foods business. They’ve only had chains in California. They’re now going to open a new one in Las Vegas. And my son-in-law and daughter will be the managers and owners of the new Togo’s. That sounds good. It is. Everyone’s going to enjoy it. I know. UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden 18 (Laughs) They make fantastic sandwiches. That sounds good. So we’ll all be back here again. Get a little family reunion again. Yes. Well, we’re doing that always. (Laughs) Yes. What do you do in your spare time? In my spare time? Well, I’ve started to walk. I take a walk every morning with a very dear friend. And we walk between four and five miles, and I thoroughly enjoy that. And also I have different hobbies that I like to do. I do some ceramic work, and I love to cook. You do? Yes. I do. That’s just about it. Other than keeping my home. Taking care of the having the children over and the grandchildren. (Laughs) So my time is pretty well spent. Bet you can’t wait for some great-grandchildren. Yes. That would be great, too. (Laughs) Yes. That’ll be a while, though. Mm. Yes, I guess so. Did you go to cooking school? Or anything? No. I didn’t. No. So, everything’s sort of self-learned? That’s right. I love to experiment and try new recipes all the time. UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden 19 (Laughs) That’s great. My mother was a fabulous cook. I don’t ever remember her ever ruining a meal. (Laughs) She was just marvelous. (Laughs) Once a year we are holding the Deverell family reunions now. We started that last year. So I’m looking forward to this year. Well, we hold it in April. And that’s always a lot of fun—all of us get together. Is that a real big reunion? Well, now, let’s see, on the Deverell side of our—my side of the family, I have my sister, Catherine Johnson and her family, and my borth George Deverell and his family, and mine, that’s it. And my mother and father are both dead now. And it was a nephew, my sister Catherine’s youngest son, Jeffrey, was the one that started this. He felt that we shouldn’t forget. That this should be done every year, in memory of my father. And he wanted his children to always remember their great-grandparents—and know all about them. So he was the one that started our first one, which was last year. Sounds really interesting. And I think it’s a beautiful— It is. Idea. Well, Mrs. Horden, thank you very much for doing this interview. I’ve enjoyed doing it, Ward. And I hope you have a nice time in your reunion. UNLV University Libraries Nancy Horden 20 Thank you. (Tape ends)