Transcript of interview with Ralph Denton by K.J. Evans, approximately 1999-2000

UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton i An Interview with Ralph Denton An Oral History Conducted by K.J. Evans Las Vegas Review-Journal First 100 Oral History Project Special Collections and Archives Oral History Research Center University Libraries University of Nevada, Las Vegas UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton ii © Las Vegas Review-Journal First 100 Oral History Project University of Nevada, Las Vegas, 2018 UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton iii The Oral History Research Center (OHRC) was formally established by the Board of Regents of the University of Nevada System in September 2003 as an entity of the UNLV University Libraries’ Special Collections Division. The OHRC conducts oral interviews with individuals who are selected for their ability to provide first-hand observations on a variety of historical topics in Las Vegas and Southern Nevada. The OHRC is also home to legacy oral history interviews conducted prior to its establishment including many conducted by UNLV History Professor Ralph Roske and his students. This legacy interview transcript received minimal editing, such as the elimination of fragments, false starts, and repetitions in order to enhance the reader's understanding of the material. All measures have been taken to preserve the style and language of the narrator. The interviewee/narrator was not involved in the editing process. UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton iv Abstract On an unknown date (likely 1999-2000) and time, K.J. Evans interviewed Ralph Denton, an adviser to former Governor Grant Sawyer and political figure in Nevada for many years. Denton first talks about his personal friendship with Sawyer, their education in law school, and his eventual work on campaigning for and working with Sawyer after he became governor. Denton then explains the controversy regarding Denton’s accepting of complimentary services (comps) at hotels. He later describes his work as a Clark County Commissioner and then talks about working as district attorney in Esmeralda County, Nevada. Denton then talks about the influences that led him to be interested in a career of law and later speaks more about working with Grant Sawyer, specifically about serving as his adviser, afterwards providing the argument on why he believes Sawyer was the greatest governor of Nevada. Toward the latter part of the interview, Denton describes his work on improving civil rights and some of the challenges that came with that. The two also discuss how the practice of law has changed over time. To conclude the interview, Denton describes his experience in running for governor and how he would have served as governor if he had been elected. UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 1 [Interview starts midsentence] Perfect recall (unintelligible) with a purpose. Now, first thing I have to do is confess that I have read Hang Tough, but when I read it, I was reading it just as a fast fun reading, not really paying close attention, “I’m gonna do that,” that thing. I called Mike yesterday, and I just asked him a blunt question, I said, “What makes Ralph Denton worthy of being in the First 100?” (Unintelligible) And he went on, as he has a lot to do for quite a long time. (Laughs) (Laughs) And the way he characterized you, as being somebody’s conscience—his— Sort of the good right hand? The good right hand, you were—so, to give you a question that you can answer, how did you become in Sawyer’s campaign—well, first of all, how did you meet Sawyer, how did you get involved in his campaign, and what was your role while he was governor? That’s a compound question, of course, and very broad, and before I answer the question, I would like to address (unintelligible) contributed to (unintelligible) but I would deny that. You would—? Well, since Grant was a man who had to be conscious, and maybe from time to time, other people, myself included, might have reminded him that Grant was a highly moral man with a—and I think a deep commitment to public service and a conscience. So, to the extent that, categorizing me as his conscience diminishes him, is not correct. But, now to answer your question. I met Grant first in Washington, D.C. in either December of 1946 or January of 1947—I’m not certain when I got back to Washington after the war. I don’t remember if I stayed in UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 2 Caliente through New Year’s or just through Christmas, but I had known of Grant for many years before then because he and my brother were close friends, very close friends, and my brother had been his best man when he and Betty were married, and that was in Washington. But they had been roommates in Washington, and about 1941, maybe late ’40, until Grant went in the service, they had also known each other at the University of Nevada. So, I have known of Grant for a long time, and my brother had always spoken in such high terms of him, and other people that I knew had talked about Grant in very high terms. And so, when I went back to Washington, and my brother and another Nevada boy by the name of Hugh Norton from Ely met me at Union Station, ‘cause I was going to go in the same boarding house they were in, they were already there going to school, and before we went to the boarding house or anything, we went to Grant and Berry Sawyer’s little apartment on Ninth Street. So, we went from Union Station about nine blocks to this (unintelligible). (Laughs) (Laughs) That’s where I first met Grant and Betty Sawyer. And then I stayed in Washington and Grant was there going to law school and we just became really good friends—Grant, my brother and I—and when I say Grant and I became good friends, I should say, too, Grant and Betty and I became good friends. Mm-hmm. Became very, very good friends. And Grant graduated from law school before I did. See, he had a year before he went in the service, of law school—he had been in Washington, as I mentioned, before the war, and he had been going to Georgetown University, and he had a year of law school, and then when the war was over, he came back and he completed it, so he was through. So, Grant finished law school and went back to Nevada. He went to Elko to practice law. When I UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 3 graduated—well, in the spring of 1951, I came out from Washington to Reno to take the Nevada Bar exam, and I stopped in Elko and stayed with Grant and Betty, and in the meantime (unintelligible) elected district attorney in Elko County. (Unintelligible) Mm-hmm, so I stayed there with them overnight, and we made a few sacrifices on the altar of friendship and laughed a joke and had a good time. And next time he offered me, if I passed the bar, which was always in doubt in Nevada in those days, he offered me a job as deputy district attorney in Elko County. So, I passed the bar; in June, the results were out, and I passed the bar, and the day I got word that I passed the bar, by then I was back in the state, before I was working in Carson City, and passed the bar, went to Caliente, stayed a couple days, and took off for Elko. And then I was his deputy district attorney from 1951 through 1953, (unintelligible) we worked together, and we were friends. Grant and Betty were the only people we knew in Elko when we first went there, and our friendship just ripened. And then there came a time when I moved to Las Vegas and Grant just ran for regent in 1956. And (unintelligible) we went to Elko, Grant and Betty were the only ones we knew; when he came to Las Vegas, we were the only ones (unintelligible). (Laughs) (Laughs) No, he knew some people, but—so he stayed with us when he was campaigning for Board of Regents. We did what we could—we couldn’t do too much. We hadn’t been there very long, we didn’t know very many people at that time, but it was one of those things with—Grant and I, we were friends, and I think all of us had had a friend where maybe you don’t even see ‘em for five years, but when you do see ‘em, nothing’s ever changed. So, we were in Las Vegas, and Grant was in Elko, and we didn’t see much of him, and then ’58, he ran for governor. So, I wanted to UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 4 do everything we could to help him, and we did, and our friendship just continued, and it continued after he became governor, and after and after governor’s chair. You were his campaign manager? That’s what they say. (Unintelligible)— (Unintelligible) (Laughs) In terms of— I’m not sure who actually had the title—maybe I had it and maybe Dick hadn’t had it—maybe Tom Cook had it in Reno. Maybe William Hollister had it, but people refer to me as his campaign chairman from time to time, and nobody would ever do anything to (unintelligible) that impression. But Grant ran his own campaign; that’s true. [Audio cuts out] I think we’re safe with recording now. Okay. Okay, take two. Mr. Denton, I’m— That’s all right. I do apologize for that. Okay. Okay. Well, I just want you to know that I— That’s all right. I have long admired you. In fact— Your faith is misplaced. UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 5 I can remember as a small child hearing your name on a commercial, where it was repeated several times. Oh, yes. “Denton, Ralph, Denton, Ralph, Denton”— That’s right. Shall we do the chorus? “For effective— [Simultaneous] “Representation.” “Vote Denton, vote Denton, vote Denton. For Nevada and the whole nation, vote Denton, vote Denton, vote Denton!” That was a radio jingle. I was about eight years old and I could sing it. It got stuck in my mind—whoever wrote that was a genius. (Laughs) My friend Bob Regan, and the kids sang it—everybody thought it was my kids but it wasn’t my kids. Oh, and, of course, always (unintelligible). (Laughs) This guy’s a real horse’s ass. Yeah. (Laughs) (Laughs) Well, just to make it worse, I’ll tell you, I have a ’64 campaign poster—we’re building a new house, when he comes out for the housewarming, he’s gonna see it, put it in a frame, and put it up. (Laughs) I told him I’m ready if he tries again. UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 6 Sure, (unintelligible) Oh, does he? We seem to have three or four or five of them in the file folder. Let me go back and get you to rehash a couple of stories. Okay. The point about you being—the Dunes story. Yes. The Dunes (unintelligible) story. I do know the story. And start out, if you will, by saying, “I abused but I didn’t know it,” if you don’t mind me saying that. Of the comp. Yes, the comp (unintelligible). Well, I did. I don’t think I was alone, but upon reflection, I just terribly abused the comp privileges. Mm-hmm. Not just the Dunes but many of the hotels, particularly the Riviera and Flamingo, as I had friends at those two hotels. And the Dunes and that wonderful (unintelligible)—(Laughs) (Laughs) That was a (unintelligible). I don’t know how to repeat what I said a few minutes, but basically, that is it; I abused it, I think most people did, and I think it was pretty common practice. And as I say (unintelligible) I look back on it, it wasn’t abuse, but the thought never occurred to me that they thought that they were buying any influence or were trying to buy any influence, but they UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 7 were my friends, and this is what they did for all their friends, particularly those that happened to be—because I used to get comped there when I wasn’t on the Board of County Commissioners, just because, I guess, because I was a friend of Grant’s. Right. I thought because we were good friends, see. And so then there came a time when the freeway was built and the access here to Flamingo Road coming off the freeway, the Dunes people wanted to change the name of Flamingo Road to Dunes Drive, or Dunes Road—I forget what. So, of course, they had to get the okay from the state on that part, ‘cause it was part of the freeway, the access. And then the county commissioners changed the name of the street from Flamingo to Dunes. And you’re on the commission (unintelligible). And I could not see any public interest involved in changing the name of the road, particularly to, there was a hotel across the street called the Flamingo Hotel, and that road had been the Flamingo Road for a long, long time. There were businesses up and down the street, they would have to change their stationery—you know, all of the people already lived or had business on that street, they didn’t want to, and so I saw no public interest in changing the name of that street. So, it was a 3-2 vote, and I voted against changing the name, and earned, as a result of that, the undying enmity of Major Riddle, although on the surface he continue to be a friend. But the first I really heard about it, I was talking to Larry Thomas, and he told me how upset Riddle was at me after as nice as they’ve been to me in all the meals they had given me and all the shows I had seen at the hotel, that I would vote against him. And Larry told me, he said, “I told Major that you would do anything,”—no, that he shouldn’t expect me to take something away from somebody else to (unintelligible) to him. He said, “Ralph, and I know he’d do anything in the UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 8 world he could for you legitimately, but don’t expect him to take something away from somebody else to give it to you. No, I appreciated Larry’s viewpoint on that, but it didn’t have any effect on Dunes. He continued to be and became, then, the very closest and strong supporter of Walter Barring—oh, and (unintelligible). (Laughs) I’m okay, but that’s basically what was that story. But I don’t know if any further comment is necessary insofar as the abuse of comps by practically everybody. But that kinda marks you as not being a, you know, go-along, get-along kind of person? Well, no, I never expected—see, I had this stupid idea that if somebody was my friend, they would understand that I’m gonna try and do the best I can in my job. And why would a county commissioner vote to change the name of a long-established street in the county where it wouldn’t inconvenience several people, a lot of people in the community, just to do a favor for somebody—that’s not the purpose. They wanted to change (unintelligible) its entire length? Yes. So, the state went along, and if you’ll notice now, when you get off the freeway, it says Dunes/Flamingo Drive. Yes. It becomes Flamingo again after you cross the Strip. (Laughs) (Laughs) And I think that (unintelligible) it says Flamingo Road. I’ll posit another one. Was it the Winterwood Golf Course? Winterwood Golf Course, yes. That you opposed? UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 9 I did. Why? Well, other than the fact that it sounded—(Laughs) (Laughs) Let’s go back to the 1960s, if you will. Okay. Okay? Mm-hmm. And it was fairly customary—customary is the right word, but it wasn’t unusual for developers to build a golf course and use it as a shield to sell their lots. Right. Okay? But they didn’t want to get stuck with that golf course; they weren’t the big moneymakers that they are now. Right? And it wasn’t exactly in a choice location. It wasn’t exactly; it was in a flood channel. Right. Among other things. So, Dalitz and Adelson and Molasky and that group, who were building this Winterwood out here, the subdivision, all these houses—and they’re putting in a golf course. And then, they come to the county, sell the golf course to the county for a county golf course for what it cost them to build. Okay. All right? Now, I thought, it’s like the old saying my dad used to have, “They’ll give you everything the chicken laid but the egg.” UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 10 (Laughs) You know? If the county needs a municipal golf course, as I’m sure it did, there’d have been no trouble from the county to get land from the federal government for that purpose. Mm-hmm. And then they can design their own golf course, then they can put it out to bids. So, I thought, it’s not right for the county to shill the subdivision—maybe I was right and maybe I was wrong—but I did not think it was sound public policy for the county to buy that golf course. If you wanted a golf course, it was certainly under the statute, it seemed to me, that (unintelligible) go out to bid somebody who wanted to sell us a golf course. Yeah. And so, I went to several real estate brokers in town. Do you suppose these fellows had the impression that the Clark County Commission was a pushover? Oh, sure. At that time, I didn’t realize that. I didn’t come to realize that until years later what a pushover it was, but I went to several real estate brokers in town. I went to talk to C.D. Baker, for example, who was a man I had considerable respect for as a real estate broker, and I said, I told him what this was, and I said, “Now, C.D., am I wrong? It seems to me that this is not sound public policy.” Mm-hmm. That all they’re doing is shilling that housing, that subdivision, and take in the headaches. Now, if they want to get rid of the golf course, obviously they’d keep it if it was a profitable thing. They want to get rid of the golf course, and I said there’s some reason—I talked to several real estate brokers, and they all agreed with me, okay? UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 11 Okay. Now, one of them whose name I won’t mention, I said, “Well, it’s gonna come before the county commissioners next Tuesday—whatever day it was—would you mind coming and testifying, and he said he’d be there, but he didn’t show up. Now, we hadn’t had a director of recreation before in the county, but we did set up a recreation department and a director—we had a director of recreation. Both he and Robbins Cahill, the county manager, recommended against it—made good presentations at the county commission recommending against it and cited their reasons. I questioned them quite a bit, and so it came to a vote, and the vote was 4-1—four to approve it, one against it. And so, we have that Winterwood Golf Course out there now; it’s a county golf course. I have intentionally not paid too much attention to its success or failures in the future, but I understand it’s been subject to great criticism through the years. (Laughs) (Laughs) At what nature, I don’t know. (Unintelligible) diplomatically. At what nature, I don’t know. But I was really shocked by that; I was really shocked how my four colleagues just laid over and played dead. I’ll also toss in, for what it’s worth, Robbins Cahill being county manager, you had something to do with that. Well, I was in (unintelligible) selecting him as county manager, but— Was this before or after his tenure as—oh, it would have to have been after— This is after he’d gone out for Gaming Control Board, and he was actually in Reno at the time, he was either a city manager of Reno or county manager in Reno. I forget what Bob’s job was. He was up in Reno then, and he had something to do with county government or city government UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 12 in Reno, and I was new on the Board of County Commissioners at that time, and this was our first county manager, and then the talk was about, who’s gonna be the new county manager? In Bob Cahill’s memoirs, or oral history, he indicates that Bob Baskin was his strong supporter, started it as a strong supporter, and that I urged his appointed and worked for (unintelligible). The fact of the matter is— [Background ordering of coffee] The fact of the matter is that Bob Baskin was a strong supporter of Bob Cahill’s, but before he knew of Bob Cahill, I had thought of Bob Cahill. And I knew who a close friend of Bob Baskin’s was, who was also a close friend of Bob Cahill’s, and that was a man by the name of Grant Robinson, who was superintendent of banks at that time, and he was received for two of the savings and loans in Las Vegas at that time, I think. And they also had breakfast at Baskin’s, and he and Bob would become very great friends, and Bob thought Grant Robinson was the greatest guy that ever (unintelligible) shoe leather, and I talked to Grant Robinson and said, “Now, you talk to Bob Baskin and you suggest Bob Cahill for that job,” and Grant Robinson did and he called me, said, “Oh, Bob’s in there.” (Laughs) So, Robbins Cahill became the first county manager, but at the time of Winterwood Golf Course thing, it was Cahill recommended against it, the county head of the recreation department recommended (unintelligible) gave reasons, and I got a kick out of Bill Greer before he was one of my colleagues on the board, and he acted before like he had some doubts about it. He asked me to go down and look at the land—what the hell do I know about looking at the land, and then he asked me, “Do you like this flood channel?” I said, “Well, I see all these ditches from here.” (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 13 (Laughs) But his worry about the floods didn’t dissuade him from voting for it. I want to go back to Grant Sawyer’s campaign. Okay. Up until that time, your career had been just as a private attorney—? Well, deputy district attorney in Elko County and (unintelligible). Okay. And then, yes, and at the time Grant was running for governor in ’58, I was running for district attorney, Esmerelda County. Okay. Now, you were the district attorney in Esmerelda County? Sure as hell was for a while. I won the election. That must have been an exciting job. Well, that was (unintelligible). Was it? I didn’t stay too long, because I decided—although I’m not sure the people up there believed me—but I decided after about nine months of it that I wasn’t being fair to them because the DA didn’t live there—only came up for county commission meetings, you know, the DA before. And I soon discovered that when I was in Goldfield, I was neglecting my office in Las Vegas, something had come up here, and when I was down here, I was neglecting something up in Goldfield. So, I resigned, but after about nine months, I had a blast; that was fun. So, let’s see who’d you have, Judge Hatman, or? No, old Pete Breen, old Peter Breen. Okay. You know that Pete Breen’s a judge in Reno—his father. UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 14 Oh, okay. He was a (unintelligible)— Now, were you DA there when Bill Becka was DA? Bill was the district attorney of Nye County, and I was district attorney of Esmerelda. Bill turned out to be one of my best friends for a period of time. I started out trying to expose him as a crook. No, he was not a crook. He was a fine guy. And sweetest guy I ever knew. Worst mistake old Bill ever made in his life as district attorney was letting men open the whorehouses. Yup, and he’ll tell you that. He will, or he would, ‘cause I discussed it with him. If he’d—okay to have a madam run it. Yes. But to let men run a whorehouse was big mistake. (Laughs) Caused absolutely nothing but trouble. That’s right. So, you have graduated from law school, you have been assistant district attorney in Elko County. When you decided on a career in the law, when did that happen? I can’t remember when I didn’t want to be a lawyer, but—well, my father always wanted to be a lawyer, and he never even finished grammar school. But we had in our house and our library all of the law books of one of the correspondence schools that dad would read, and he always regretted the fact that he didn’t become a lawyer. In those days, he could’ve become, you know, UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 15 depending if the Democrats were in, you could become a lawyer. The Republicans were in, they could become lawyers and morticians and druggists and whatever the hell they wanted to be. You could become a justice of the peace if you were a gardener. Well, you still could do that; thank the Lord for that. (Laughs) You still can. But I always wanted to be a lawyer, and then it was kind of fortified, to a certain degree, when I was a kid and I was a shoeshine boy in the barber shop there in Caliente, and the lawyers and the judge used to come up from Las Vegas about once a month to hold court, you know? Mm-hmm. And sometimes they’d come in the shop and get a haircut and a shave, and sometimes I’d get to shine their shoes, and here were these men that were dressed—everybody else I knew was wearing bib overalls or Levi’s most of the time. But here were these men dressed, and they had good senses of humor and well spoken. And I remember George Marshal, he was a judge during that period of time from here, and he’s come in about every time he came up, and he’d get a haircut and a shave and I’d shine his shoes, and I just thought he was the grand man. And then some of the lawyers would do the same. Old Julia Thruston who used to live in Lincoln County, EO Watkins, one of the lawyers here (unintelligible) John Bonner—lawyers would come in and they all just struck me as being, “Well, that’s a whole lot better than shining shoes or working in the service station.” And I just thought they were nice. And years later, Judge Marshal (unintelligible) practicing law down here (unintelligible) and he’d be about half the bag, put his arm around me, and he’d say, “This boy used to shine my shoes.” (Laughs) (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 16 But then I think when it really solidified, when I was definitely certain—I always said I wanted to be a lawyer when I went to Washington the first time. And this boarding house was full of Nevada kids—I had Nevada kids who were about to go into law school. The guys that I really came to admire, and my friend was one of them. He had just left that boarding house when I got there in ’42. I didn’t meet him then, but I knew of him, and he had been my brother’s roommate there. And there were any number of Nevada kids there. Even then, John Poulitz was there then, Cal Cory was there—he was a Las Vegas man—and I thought for the first time, “Well, hell, if they can do it, I can do it.” It seems to me that there’s a lot, of course, a lot of different type of lawyers and a lot of different motivations for wanting to get into law, everywhere from, you know, crusading defense lawyers— Uh-huh. To people who go to law school specifically with the idea of getting into politics. What were your aspirations—after you had decided on a career in law and you’re in law school, what did you figure on happening after that? Practice law in Nevada. You wanted to practice law in Nevada? Uh-huh. I wanted to be like those guys that I knew when I was in the barbershop, you know, being a respectable and admired member of your community and be there to help people in the community, ‘cause you hear people talk about lawyers. And (unintelligible) but it never dawned on me, and I don’t think it ever has to tell anyone—it may not be true—but it never really dawned on me that I ever had any potential for high public office, you know, with my UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 17 background and my education and that sort of thing. I never thought of myself as a particularly—until I got to know more the guys that were in my public office, I think, “Jesus.” (Laughs) (Laughs) Hell, I can do this, if you know what I mean. But I had never, at that time, thought of any career in politics, anything like that, except my family was always interested in it but had never had real high public office. And I just never thought of it at that time. Although I would agree, I think a lot of kids went into law because they had an interest in politics. What about Grant? What made him tick? Did he always want—do you think he always wanted—? I think so. I think Grant—because even back in the days when—I think even in Washington we talked about, maybe, his potential for high public office. I’m not certain of that. I know we talked about it in Elko after he had been elected district attorney, you know. We talked from time to time about—it came as a surprise to me when he ran for governor, because I thought that his ambition was to be a United States Senator. Mm-hmm. And you know, I don’t know, I don’t think I’m talking out of school here (unintelligible) but I think in 1958, had Fred Anderson from Reno not filed for the Senate, I think Grant probably would’ve run for the Senate rather than the other one. [Audio cuts out] You said something one time about how even among the law students when they worked in the office, Sawyer was sort of a (unintelligible). UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 18 That was always the center of the group. If the old Nevada guys were having a party, which we used to do a lot in those days. Right after the war, we (unintelligible)—we were all older than the average college student. Right. Had all developed a healthy respect in regard for a strong drink. At least most of us have, you know. (Laughs) (Laughs) And we would have parties (unintelligible) all the Nevada guys and their wives if they had wives, and girlfriends who’d be at somebody’s house, and it was always bring your own (unintelligible) chipped in to get the (unintelligible). And at all those parties, Grant was always right in the middle. He either organized the party or he was right in the middle, and he decided to go do something, what we did. If everybody decided to go to Uline Arena ice-skating, probably it was Grant’s suggestion. If you were going to go next weekend or two weekends later over to Baltimore to see Helen (unintelligible), that’s probably Grant. He said, “Why don’t we go see Helen?” “Good idea,” you know. (Laughs) There’s a famous picture that was in the Green Felt Jungle that shows Grant doing the twist with some woman, and it was insinuating that Grant Sawyer is this major party animal. Yes. He actually was, huh? No, no. No? UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 19 Well, I don’t know major party animal—well, he was about like the rest of us. We were kids in those days, so kids know—he was maybe twenty-four, just gotten out of the Army. We partied, well, with each other, but he never became a great partygoer or party giver later on. I wanted to kinda get back to your role in his administration. You maintained your law office here? Mm-hmm. So, you never held an actual office in his administration? No. No. You were (unintelligible) an adviser? If he asked. If he asked? Yes. Did he ask a lot? Well, from time to time, but there are a lot of things that happened that I had no hand in at all, no part in it at all, he never even discussed with—he might come to Las Vegas, and we’d spend some time together maybe and talk and he’d tell me what was, some things that were going on. Did you ever see him headed for a serious mistake and stop him? No. (Laughs) It’s funny that you would mention that, because he was—the only time, I told you earlier that I never made an unsolicited advice to him—I did once. Yes. And it was a time when I thought, it’s read in the papers, and I thought he was gonna make the worst mistake of his life. And when was this? UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 20 Well, this was early on, a year or so after he was governor. And he was going to discharge a person in state government. Can you name? (Unintelligible) Okay. Off the record, I’ll tell you. And another friend of mine here in Las Vegas who was a friend of Grant’s felt as strongly about this as I did. Mm-hmm. And so we called and said we wanted to come up and talk to him. And we went up and talked to him and told him we read the story that was going to fire X for this job. And the purpose— So the papers had this? Oh, yeah, that he was gonna fire this guy or transfer him (unintelligible). So, took a lot of Grant’s time and he sat there just as patiently as a man could be. As I reflect upon it, he shoulda just kicked us out of his office right then. But we gave him all the reasons why he shouldn’t do this. And he listened to us. You went to Carson City? Went to Carson City, yes. Felt that strongly? Felt that strongly about it. We thought it was going to terribly injure him politically. And he listened to us very patiently, but then afterwards he told us why. He said, “Frankly,” he said, “this sonofabitch is driving me crazy.” (Laughs) UNLV University Libraries Ralph Denton 21 So I listened to that, and I said, “Grant, I’ll never do this again. I apologize to you.” And he went ahead and he fired the guy and replaced him and everything was happy ever after. (Laughs) No bad effects resulted. (Unintelligible) [Audio cuts cut] A lovely woman—her father was an engineer on the railroad there in Caliente— We’re on aga