Paul M. Lytle interview, March 8, 1995 transcript

F §77 B 4 An Oral History Interview with Paul Lytle 1995 # y 9/ Photographs following page 1. News article announcing Clark County's first Civilian Conservation Corps enrollees, 1933 3 2. The first Hoover Dam tour guides, 1937 18 3. Automobile convoy at Hoover Dam, 1941 22 4. Camp Williston, Boulder City, Nevada, ca. 1943 25 5. Paul Lytle, ca. 1943 - 44 26 6. Placing the Winged Figures of the Republic at Hoover Dam, 1937 29 7. Oskar J. W. Hansen at work, 1938 30 8. Edythe Lucille Lytle, 1941 31 He He He He ii Acknowledgments ! i'ink I aul Lytle for allowing me to record this interview with him and me photographs to include in his oral history. The staffs of the 1 it> I ibrary, the Special Collections Department of the University of 1 .>•> \ egas library, and the Nevada State Museum and Historical Society 1 ark in Las Vegas were helpful in compiling the annotations. I would arU like to thank Leslie Peterson of the National Park Service in Boulder UNO of her transcribing equipment and for access to the Service's library lu \ es. I he excellent photo reproductions were made by Ihla Crowley at ata in Boulder City, Nevada. * * * * iii Boulder City Library Oral History Project Interview with Paul Lytle conducted by Dennis McBride March 8, 1995 Today is Wednesday, March 8,1995, and this is Dennis McBride talking with Mr. Paid Lytle at his home, 1300 Colorado Street in Boidder City. We're going to talk about the Civilian Conservation Corps today, and about Mr. Lytle's experiences when he was in the CCC. First of all, Mr. Lytle, tell me when you were born and where, and a little bit about your family: how many brothers and sisters, and so on. Well, I was born in Salt Lake City, Utah August 14, 1909. My folks were ... my mother was born in Overton, and my father was one of the Mormon pioneers. He was born over in northeastern Arizona at Springerville and Eagar, Arizona.1 They were all connected with the early Mormon exodus out of Salt Lake and heading into this area: Arizona and Nevada, New Mexico, I guess. How many brothers and sisters did you have? I have one sister and five brothers. Good-sized family. Most of them were born over at Overton [Nevada]. So I had quite an early history [in] the Moapa Valley. Yeah, you were there just at the very beginning, almost. What did your father do? He was a carpenter. Contractor. We moved from Overton down into Los Angeles, and he did quite a bit of contracting down there. Los Angeles proper. This was after you were born, then ? That was after 1 was born. In fact, we moved into Los Angeles when I was about eleven, twelve years old and stayed there for three or four years. Then we moved up into northeastern Arizona, to Eagar and Springerville. That's originally where he came from. I finished high school there in 1928. And then my folks finally... . Well, my dad, of course, was doing contracting work here and there, and we moved into Arizona for a few years, and then my mother moved back up here to Overton. But your dad didn't come with her? No, he stayed in Los Angeles for awhile, and he also... . He was in business in Springerville and Eagar. He ran a skating rink. Roller skating? Roller skating, yeah. We were there for, oh, a number of years. When you said that lie was a contractor, did he build houses ? Built houses, uh huh. Course, that was his primary occupation. But we went over into Arizona and had a good opportunity to go into business. He ran the skating rink, and he also had a little business in front of the rink. We were there three or four years. Were you there when the stock market crashed in 1929? No. I finished high school in Arizona, and then 1 came up to southern Utah and I graduated finally from Dixie College2 in 1930. What did you get a degree in? I was in teaching. Majored in music. When you graduated from college, then, by that time, 1930, the Depression was pretty well underway. The Depression had started. The year I graduated, 1930, I came back down to Overton where my folks were at the time. That's when I first heard of the CCC, Civilian Conservation Corps.3 How did you hear about it? An uncle of mine said [that] the government [was] coming out with a Three Cs movement, and asked me if I'd be interested in becoming a member. He said, "Well, they're going to choose about 38 people locally to go up into the Charleston Mountain region and set up a camp, and if you'd like to go, why, I'd be glad to put you in contact with the right people and see that you go along with this original group up to the Mt. Charleston area." Had you been working before that, or were you looking for a job? I had just finished college and I was looking for a job. I was doing odd jobs around. For instance, I was a concrete contractor with my dad. We did a lot of concrete work up around the Caliente, Pioche mining district up there. Odd jobs, but nothing [much]. So you heard about the CCC. Where did you go to sign up for it? Do you remember? uuo a taxa- • can ."-cure unit- • a .speedy iwt on Ui»- ad- -:ou* buMness rc- «dajr of next week t the present, -«"ci about ire that the • rr Ally provide (he : filial decision , far as much'the.( b ned judgment? • * a whole." rhalrnuin cxprcsx-to have his it decision on the M :iday night, must find two million dollars financing bond Issue, viles tax clnim- *o more- certain :.notable report u;aboo» MOM y. _ i un uugu ui uili golf course behind courthouse. i Office of T. G. Rags- | dale To Be. Scene of Examination * Physical examination of . applic­ants for positions with the Clark County Conservation . Corps will be conducted on Monday at the office of T. P. Ragsdale, local attorney, situated in the Dclkin building. This announcement was made yesterday by John Witwcrr, in active charge of the work in this county. - The 36 candidates who will be ac­cepted after the physical examina­tion will be sent into the Charleston mountains to establish a permanent camping site for the remainder 'of J. Sore Tn-tlr Bouldet owned Cromwi Edythe Sorensc Elko, U J. Brov Vander well-as a quart Tlie .; is the 3 | gallant . capture • events. Snow ; • and M ! by J. ] ! heated j course : long. The Theatr | Senators* Take Firm,; .Grip On the Second! Place Position the army that will follow in a short time:—: — tttourl. May 20 •:e swept, the " gill, causing damage. • • and lighten- • northwest of i'.:on —tlbcs were blown ushed and reported, how- «f*-cially heavy, v 'from Brook - :o*«*d two days • mntly high • 1 bed as high -r-tnr state. «*"« to Omaha and tjr.su city, were wind was auers estimated it * od four inches, .-*• ithcr. man r :'.c bccau.se «ti over. ?HOXX The examination will start at 8 o'clock Monday morning and the following men are . ordered to be present: Joseph O. Adams', F. E. Aracher, R. A. Parker, Willis Karns, Otto Lam by, TIarl Morris, Donal R. Schuyler, Isham Smit h,. La von Fost­er, A. L. Lyke. Ed L. Bergulund, Henry Joreensen. -C- N. McDadc, Jack L. Wolfe, E.-O. Dunnlgnn. Ted Smith. A. B. Fisher, Glen Brubackcr, A. P. Denning. Joseph Lc'avy, Glenn Willis, Claude Bilderback. Alama E.' Dal ley. John E. Fitchett'.H. B. John­son. D. Dotherrow, E. A. Schulz, John E. Reynolds. ' Alvin J. Fisher, C. C. Foster. J. M. Green. F. C. Bishop. Don,P McGarvie, Wm. A. Richardson. Robert Button,' Paul Lytic, Charles B. Hill. Edward Loos -atrd-EvarrWVasderr:—:—:—— — These men are requested to bring with them their originaly copy of their application blank presented to the Clark County Farm ^Bureau office. •- —„... On Tuesday morning, the men : that have • passed the test will be i sent into the mountains. J 11UV AT HO.ni: •—NEWTORKrMay 20 (U.W-^The-1-™;-' j Cleveland Indians went back" Into ! third place in th°e American League today because they were miablfc to keep pace with the Washington Se­nators. Tlie Indians dropped back The an atl Monda W. JWc enter tr friends eluded Wm, , Blandi ble. W Van A Beckle. broke, son, A from a tie for second as .the result of a seven to two defeat by the Philadelphia Athletics, while the .Senators were defeating the Chica­go White Sox, seven to nothing. , — The League leading Yankees had j s- J- I their margin chopped down to a; Waiter single game as they suffered a four ; man, ( to .two whipping at the hdnds of' .Frank i the St. Louis Browns. ! White, ! The Boston Red Sox. defeated ley. the Detroit Tigers six to fiver I ' SLandings..in the -Nationa 1-Heagtieif~%r remained unchanged as the second i • devision clubs scored over a major- ; teiW~n | ity of the top-half outfits. ^6nir> .L— The-only leader M gut a break Mrs. ^ Those pltalltj Jr., an childre Clark; was the .-first place 'Pirates, who split a double-header wlth the Bqst* on Braves, losing the first four to two but winning, the second seven to six. . • . - The Dodgers- and - Cub-T^ftyed] sons'; i their first game of the season to- Carol [day with the Chicago team winning' three to one. T : ' . 'With Dizzy Dean hurling, the St.; virtual ONT VTSIT HERE • ' i S T YE whipped the ,Giants'dfollnn M M — — — — — — ^ ' ' V » .. » Paul Lytle is named in the fourth paragraph of this news article as among the first of Clark County's Civilian Conservation Corps enrol lees. [from the Las Vegas Evening Review-Journal, May 21, 1933, 1:3] Well, it was in the spring of 19304. 1 don't remember the exact date. I went up with the original group, and 1 think we signed up up there in the recreational area of Mt. Charleston. Were these original groups all boi/s from the area? All local boys. And we set up that regional camp up at Mt. Charleston there. We were there probably six months getting things organized. They had carpenters come in and build barracks. We used the army tents. That original group, we were under the Air Corps from Riverside, California.^ The U. S. Air Corps. They had put those people in charge of the CCC units. IWasI it the Air Corps that provided the carpenters and.... No, no that was local. 1 think most of them had signed a contract with the Three Cs to do that kind of work. Did they provide you with a uniform or work clothes? Yes. Well, the army |did|. The US Air Corps at Riverside supplied us with over­sized overalls, jumpsuits, shirts, and apparently stuff that they had had in storage and never used. And they thought the Three Cs would be a good point to get rid of it! 1 know the overalls they gave us at the time were three or four sizes too big. But they gave them to us to wear. When you were at Mt. Charleston, was this in Lee's Canyon? Lees Canyon, yeah. And we had barracks situated right where the ranger station is now. And later on, when the main force came in-oh, we must have had four or five hundred people-they established an outpost over at Deer Creek. The went to work building the ... . Oh, they had your regular army tents over there at the time, and your main units stayed at Lee s Canyon. And that's where you were, at Lee s Canyon? That's where we were, in Lee's Canyon. Then, of course, I was a major in music, and one of the people we had in charge of the Three Cs up there was Fred Pine. He knew I was a music major and played the banjo. Well, of course, he wanted me to go right into the orchestra he was organizing. When he moved over to Deer Creek, why, I went along with the group over there. Was this orchestra made up of all CCC hcnjs? All CCC boys. And we were, oh, quite an active group. We played for special parties, like [for] J[ames] G. Scrugham. He was the senator from Nevada at the time. He had a cabin, 1 think, at Mt. Charleston. At least, he was renting a cabin up there. He had us come up there for parties off and on all the time he was there. Our orchestra furnished the music. [We] had a very nice time. Did your orchestra have a name? No, we were just an organized group from the Three Cs. Didn't have any specific name. Do you remember how many boi/s were in the orchestra, or what some of the other instruments were? Well, we had Fred Pine, the leader. He played the violin. And I played the banjo. And we had somebody on the drums. Were there any horns ? Yes, we had a sax. In fact, I played the sax somewhat, but mostly I was with the banjo. And we had the drums, and I think possibly a trumpet player. Was there a piano? Oh, yes, we had somebody playing the piano. What kind of music did you play? Most of your modern jazz at the time. Was that your favorite kind of music? It was the favorite music of the time. Most of us knew a lot of the old jazz of the age, and we could pick it up very easily. We didn't have a piano very often, but where they had a piano, why, of course, we had somebody come in and use it. Let s talk a little bit about xohat life was like in the camp, later on, after it was established. For instance, do you remember what the barracks was like, what your room was like? Or did you have your own room ? The barracks were very similar to an army barracks. In other words, they had bunks, one above the other, for the entire length of the barracks. And we also had a mess hall. A separate mess hall? Separate mess hall. That was at the main camp in Lee's Canyon. But when we moved over to around Deer Creek, we had the army tents set up. And we had a regular tent for the meal service, kitchen. And they prepared meals for us. Just like they had a regular area where we ate over at the main camp, a regular kitchen unit. Was the food good? Was there plenty of it? The food was fairly good. We had cooks just like they have everywhere, you know. And it was a time when people were out of work and they were glad to come into the organization. What kind of work did you do when you were up there at Lee's Canyon? We were building mostly trails and campsites. Your Three Cs built the trails up to Little Falls, and they built the main trail up to Mt. Baldy. Whether it's used anymore or not, I don't know. The campsites—I didn't do too much of the carpentry work, but [I did] a lot of cleaning up and shaping up of the sites. Did yon have heavy equipment to work with, or did you build these trails by hand? We had some heavy equipment. We had scrapers and some heavy equipment that they could clean off sites, and then we could go in and do most of the installation work. Mt. Charleston then was pretty remote from Las Vegas, relative to now. Well, yes, the roads at that time were two-lane, graded highways. But they were in good shape. I don't know whether it was the state or the city had kept them in good condition. Did you move into Lee's Canyon before the camp was built? Yes, I was with the original 38. What did you live in while they were building [the camp] ? We lived in army tents. Were they comfortable? They were comfortable. We had cots and blankets. Everything was fairly comfortable at the time. It got pretty cold up there at night, didn t it? It was in the spring and summer months we were there. And then later, in the fall, they moved the Three Cs out of the mountain area, and they built a barracks and army tents down at Overton. So Mt. Charleston was more or less a seasonal camp ? 8 Mt. Charleston was more or less left during the winter months because it was too cold. So they just moved all of you over from Mt. Charleston to Overton? To Overton. Your family was living over there, weren't they? My family was living there, but I still lived with the Three Cs down at what they called Kaolin [he pronounces it kay-o-lin\.6 I don't know whether you've [ever] heard of it. Yes, I have. That was where the camp was? That was where the camp was located. And we'd have our dance band even play for dances there in the CCC barracks. For local people to come? Local people. Did you cltarge them, or was it free? I don't remember them charging. Were they building the camp in Kaolin before you moved down there, or did they move you out and you built the camp yourself at Kaolin? As I remember it, they had us come in and prepare the site for the barracks. And I think they had carpenters do it. We were primarily working [in] the Valley of Fire area. What were you doing in the Valley of Fire area? 9 We made all of the campsites and trails here and there throughout the Valley of Fire. Helped build roadways. When you say build roadways " —paved roadways or graded roads ? Graded roadways. Was the Valley of Fire pretty much undeveloped at that time? Well, there was graded roads through the area. But we did a lot of work throughout the area, into these special points. Like, for instance, where your petrified wood is. The Indian hieroglyphics. We prepared the roads and campsites in areas for people to visit. I want to back up just a little bit. When you went off to join the CCC, had you ever been away from home on your own before, aside from having gone to college? See, I stayed in Arizona to finish high school when my folks left Arizona. I stayed with relatives in Arizona. And then the next year I went to college in southern Utah, so I wasn't around home very much. Hoiu did you feel about being in the CCC, living in a situation with all of these other boys, living in the bairacks, and eating and working with them? Was it something that was unusual for you, or were you homesick? No, I adapted to it very easily, readily. And I didn't mind it. We had a nice association, you might say, group, comradeship, with local boys. The same way at Charleston. They were all local boys, brought up under the same conditions as I was, so it was fairly a nice experience. Did you have friends in the CCC that you had known before? Oh, yes. That must have made it easier. 10 I had friends that I had known, and I had friends that knew my family. So it was a very interesting experience from that standpoint. What did they pay you for the work that you did, for joining them? I can't remember, but I think it was thirty dollars a month. But you didn t get to keep all of that, though, did you? Did they send some of the money to your family? I don't remember them ever sending anything to the family. I think they'd pay us once a month. Did they pay you with cash or with a check? 1 guess up at Mt. Charleston you wouldn't have anywhere to cash a check. I think we could always cash it in Vegas. But I don't remember too much about the system they used. I think it was possibly cash. Up at Mt. Charleston. After you were through working for the day, how did you spend your evenings? What did you do for fun? We had regular, organized social activities. We had, for instance, very gifted people, singers. We had our orchestra going all the time. We had quite a few social activities where the group would all gather around and listen to the orchestra and the singing. Did you have a library or reading room that you remember? I don't remember a library or reading room of any kind at the time. Of course, when we were off duty at night we could have our own magazines, our own reading activities if we wanted them. later on, I know, the CCC had educational programs for the boys where they would offer classes after work at night. That early, whenever you were at Mt. Charleston, do you remember whether they taught classes to the boys 01 offeied them at night. 11 No, I don t remember of any activity of that type at all. Did you ever get out of camp on the weekends? Were you able to come into Las Vegas? Oh, they had trucks. They brought us from Charleston down to Las Vegas. What did you do in Las Vegas? Oh, we were able to [see] our girlfriends or families. Friends of mine who had family there around Las Vegas, they would invite you into the family unit. [The boys] were mostly local people. Coidd you stay all night in Las Vegas? Stay all night with them, if we wanted to. The trucks would bring us back to camp. Did you go to the movies, for instance? Oh, you could go to the movies, you could go to parties, to casinos that were open at the time if you wanted to go. You must have been 21 by this time. Did you ever gamble, or do you remember any of those little casinos in Vegas then ? Not that I know of. I'd been more or less against the gambling. Hcno about Block 16?7 Do you remember that? Oh, Block 16 was available. I don't know of any of the boys going in there, though, on their own. But they could have, very easily. Did you ever walk through it? I've driven through it. And I walked through it at the time. 12 What did you see? Oh, the girls were out front, very friendly, and invited us in. But the group I was with, why, we were kind of afraid of what we might pick up, like syphilis or gonorrhea. We were talking about Kaolin. You said eight or ten families lived there? There was at least eight or ten families farming in the area. And, of course, on down at St. Thomas, that was the section of Highway 91. In other words, Highway 91 ran from Vegas down through St. Thomas, and over through the Virgin Range, Bunkerville and on up toward Salt Lake. What did St. Thomas look like then, when you were living in Kaolin? Well, the main hotel was at the west end of town, the Gentry Hotel. And there was homes, an irrigation ditch running through the west end of the town. And there was garages and homes along the main street. When you were living in Kaolin at the camp, what did you do for fun when you weren t working there? Did you get into St. Thomas or up to Overton? We could go up to Overton or St. Thomas. But mostly we had our own activities right there. Did you have what they called an educational adviser, or a camp adviser, somebody who advised you if you were homesick or had problems? Well, usually, they had somebody in charge of the entire Three C unit there. For instance, Colonel Miller was the man in charge of the group there at Kaolin. He was an army officer? We called him Colonel Miller, but I don't know what his connection was with the army or if he was with the army at that time. Vail (r °Sf"" °"e "'"S ' """'n8 l!u' camP- Were you performing thai work at the Valley of Ftre for the army or the Park Service? We weren't connected with the Park Service in any way. We were doing the work through the unit itself, the Three Cs. It was a job program. And the Park Service didn't come into the area until much later. Who was it that supervised your work crews out in the Valley of Fire? We just went in there as a work crew through the Three Cs. It was a state park, and possibly we were doing it under the supervision of the state. Could you describe how your day started? First thing in the morning what did you do, and how did you get to work, how did you come home at night? Was it run like an army unit? Run very much like an army unit. The trucks and heavy equipment, of course, would leave for the camp site, for instance, in the Valley of Fire or wherever they were working at the time. We were a construction unit, and we'd go into an area there in the Valley of Fire where they were building a campsite or a rest area. Of course, we always had a supervisor, and he showed us where to put the road or the latrines. The work was done with supervision all the time. Did you have a reveille in the morning to get you out of bed? No, no. But we were scheduled to get up and go to breakfast, then take the trucks and go out into the area where we were working. What kind of work did you do in particular? Did you operate equipment or did you use a shovel? We were mostly cleaning and grubbing with a pick and shovel to level off an area. They'd bring possibly a grader in first, and then we'd have to go in and clean up the area. 14 So you worked mostly with just picks and shovels? Yes. And I was driving a truck once in awhile, pulling into an area, and we'd load it up with debris and stuff and haul it off. How long were you at Kaolin ? Did you go back to Mt. Charleston? No, I never went back. I finally went and saw Colonel Miller and said I wanted to get out of the service, that I had a job working in the vegetables, there in the valley. 1 was picking cantaloupes and crating them and hauling them out.8 I had been given this job, and I wanted to get away from the militarization of the organization. So yon weren 't comfortable with the military aspect of the service? It wasn't so bad. But I could make more money doing something else. So I got out of the organization. So then, of course, they moved here into Boulder City. Did you get back into the [Three Cs]? No. 1 never went back. But I knew some of the group that were in charge of the group over here |in Boulder City]. For instance, Earl Banister, I know, was running the organization. And I know they were building trails up here in Bootleg Canyon and around.^ How did you know Earl Banister? He married a woman from Overton. I stayed with them for over a year here in Boulder City. Lived with them. That was when I started to work at the dam. What kind of man was Earl Banister? He was a very well-informed man on almost any type of activity. He was a fairly large, heavy-set man, light-complected. He was directing all activities, I know, for the Three Cs for a long while. 15 When did you start to work at the dam? 1937. So wyeorue up in Overton and that area front the time you left the CCC until you came to work at the dam? I was doing odd jobs, like I was working with my dad in concrete finishing work for awhile Then I put in for one of these jobs over here when they started the guide service when the [Hoover Dam] job was finished. Is that what you were doing then, a guide? Oh, yes. I came in with the original guide service at the dam. That would have been '37. 1937. Before then they had people that were working at the dam doing some guide service work. But I was with the official guide service on it when it started. Ok. There s two ways that I want to go, then. I want to talk some more about your experiences down at the dam in the guide service and so on. But also I'd like to talk a little bit more about what you remember about the CCC in Boulder City, and Earl Banister, and some of the work that they were doing down here. You mentioned they were building trails into the mountains round about. Which trails were those? Are there any of them still around? The main one that I remember was up there on the hill where they have all the communication activities now. They used to call it Radar Mountain, Red Mountain. Red Mountain. The main canyon going up there was called Bootleg Canyon because at one time the bootleggers were in there and made rot gut whiskey. But anyway, they [the CCC] had some of their units up there and they built a trail around the mountain. It might still be in existence. Did you ever hike that trail? I hiked that trail two or three times. It was a very nice-built trail about three feet wide. It went around that mountain up there and had a beautiful view of Boulder City and the area. But other than that, I don't remember too much of the work they were doing around here. [Did you know] Fay Perkins? Fay Perkins. He was a relative of mine.1! Was he down here or up around Overton? He was around Overton most of the time. Do you remember him very well? Oh, yes. And I remember him very well and I remember his son, Fay. His son, Fay, ran the Lost City over there for a long time. Fay Senior, or Fay Junior, was one of the original discoverers of the Lost City. He worked with his dad, and they did most of the excavation work over in that area. Did Fay work for the government, that you remember? I think he worked for the state. OK. So he did work there through the state of Nevada. [Did you know] Sims Ely?12 Sims Ely? I knew him quite well. Tell me what you remember about Sims Ely. I've heard quite a lot of stories about that man. First of all, I knew him as a lost mine expert. He was very concise and very decisive in his actions. I bought a place down here in Boulder City when Sims was city manager. The old boy I bought it from was a man by the name of Fairhurst. We went into Sims Ely to cinch the deal, and Sims says, "You're cheating this boy out of his hard-earned money. The place is not worth that much. He raised quite a bit of hell over the idea that I was being cheated in buying this house from Fairhurst. Fairhurst wanted $400 for the house. Anyway, I said, "I'm satisfied with the deal." And Sims Ely said, "Well, we'll let it go this time, then. But I think he s cheating you." But that was the type of man Sims Ely was. He had quite a few dealings with the Lost Dutchman mine, down around Phoenix. You ever hear of that? I have. He wrote a book about it years later. Yes, yes. Did he deal very much or know very much about the mines and mining around here? Not very much. His background was Arizona. Yes. Phoenix, I think. And the Lost Dutchman. Once you got talking to him, it was fine, but he wouldn't say too much, you know. He was afraid I might come in and try to locate one of his lost mines! He kept a pretty tight lid on Boulder City, didn't he? Yes, he did. He was all for keeping the city clean and neat. He ruled it like a lord and master. He didn't let anybody put anything over on him. Do you remember his wife No, I don't remember her. Or his son, Northcutt Ely? He worked in Washington but he was back and forth in Boulder City. He's still living, too. I don't remember him. Let s talk about your experiences down on the dam in the guide service. How were you trained, and what was it you were trained to say or told to say? The government had never had much experience with a guide service. For instance, like we had at the dam. We were given an outline. For instance, we had to say we descended so many feet in the elevator, and we had to describe where we were in relation to our position. And we went out on the balcony in the powerhouse and we had to describe the generators, their activity, their capacity. And then we d go down and out along the ramp and we'd have to describe the dam and the transformers, the power equipment from out there. Then we'd walk over through the Arizona adit tunnel over one of the penstocks where we'd have to describe the construction of the dam. I think they're still using the same lecture. How prepared were you to answer question that the questions would ask. Once you got the lecture down pat, you could answer the questions easily. Of course, the dumb questions were another thing. And you had plenty of them. Do you remember any of the dumb questions you used to get? Oh, I've got about a hundred and fifty of them written down in a manual someplace. But a lot of people seeing a dam, for instance.... I've had them, when I've been out along the powerhouse ramp describing the structure of the dam, somebody would come up and say, "What's this big concrete thing behind us?" I said, "Well, look at it this way. We're here in the canyon. What do you suppose that thing is back up there?" I said they had to have something there to block that water and build Lake Mead behind it. Were you anwng the very first guides? The first tour guides on I louver I )am, 19 V . 1—r: Bill Dunn Blackie Hardy Bert Wadsworth Pete Abott Don Scott Philip Brinn Paul Lytic Bill Dalley Lewis Pulsipher Buz Brown [photo courtesy of Paul Lytle; print in possession of Dennis McBride] 19 I was with the original group. Do you remember the first time you led a tour group through the dam, the very first one you led? Yes, I do. What was it like? Was it very crowded? You see, at that time we had as high as a 120 people to a tour. They were huge. And we had four guides on a shift. When I went to work, I'd had about two or three days to learn the lecture. And I got down there with that 120 people. I had one guide witli me that was an old-timer. I described where we were and where we were going, but I was so scared that I didn't give all of the lecture as I was supposed to. With that many people. On top of that, 1 had a group of people that were hard of hearing. One of them had a big long horn that he'd stick up to his ear, and you were supposed to talk into that horn so he could hear you. Oh, I'd talk as loud as 1 could and be polite, but where you got that many people you're handling, you can't pay too much individual attention. You can't do it. So I moved my group on through and out onto